North End Piazza on The Greenway | 198 Hanover Street | North End

cca

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This all looks and feels so lightweight for this site. It lack weight ... lacks authenticity and to my eyes feels like a slight upgrade from a stripmall. I think everyone should demand more of this site.

cca
 

sm89

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Was there an explanation of why there is such a set back? Is there a tunnel below?
The plaza is part of the City right of way. It was a street before the artery came down and the roads were realigned.
 

Lrfox

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This all looks and feels so lightweight for this site. It lack weight ... lacks authenticity and to my eyes feels like a slight upgrade from a stripmall. I think everyone should demand more of this site.

cca
Agreed. I'm not sure if the nearby tunnels limit what can be here, but it would be nice to see a housing component (even just a couple of floors on top of the retail). This is a prime location along the RKG and on the corner of one of Boston's premier streets. It's also directly across from a major transit hub (Haymarket Station). It's a gateway structure and it should be better. No reason not to have +/- three floors of housing on top of the retail which would create a visual step down into the North End. We should certainly expect less haphazard design as well.
 

Beton Brut

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This all looks and feels so lightweight for this site. It lack weight ... lacks authenticity and to my eyes feels like a slight upgrade from a stripmall. I think everyone should demand more of this site.

cca
^ This!

It looks and feels like a continuation of the Pergola in the Greenway park across the street. There are places for impermanent architecture, but this isn't one of them.
 

CSTH

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I assume all those bollards define the on-sidewalk parking area for well-connected locals - and if so its not clear why they didnt render all the parked cars...
 

stick n move

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They define the roadway as well thats “there”. Thats as far out as it can come due to this. It could be taller but thats it. I dont think well know if it looks like temporary architecture until its built. I smell another building that everyone says ah thats not so bad afterall once its built.
 

datadyne007

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Re: Retail Development | 198 Hanover Street | North End

This is an insane ceding of public plaza space to cars. There is 0 reason for this driveway made out of bollards. People will still valet their cars at the real curb if you make this a true plaza. Put tables and benches and trees on it. Put a fucking beer garden on it or something on it. Just don't cede it to cars.
 

sm89

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Re: Retail Development | 198 Hanover Street | North End

This is an insane ceding of public plaza space to cars. There is 0 reason for this driveway made out of bollards. People will still valet their cars at the real curb if you make this a true plaza. Put tables and benches and trees on it. Put a fucking beer garden on it or something on it. Just don't cede it to cars.
This is existing. It is also no longer open to cars. There is an occasional delivery and sometimes police park there. https://goo.gl/maps/D7cWMyhQ5GD2
 

datadyne007

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Re: Retail Development | 198 Hanover Street | North End

This is existing. It is also no longer open to cars. There is an occasional delivery and sometimes police park there. https://goo.gl/maps/D7cWMyhQ5GD2
Yeah but if you're rethinking this area, you have an opportunity to work with the city to say "this should be space for people."

I can see how my response made it sound like it was a plaza being turned into a driveway. I'm trying to underscore they're throwing away an opportunity to right a wrong.
 
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CSTH

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Re: Retail Development | 198 Hanover Street | North End

This is existing. It is also no longer open to cars. There is an occasional delivery and sometimes police park there. https://goo.gl/maps/D7cWMyhQ5GD2
This is the street view from aug 2017. Has the policy / enforcement changed since then?



Either way, holy hell this should be a bunch of cafe tables with umbrellas on them, and maybe some trees too.
 

datadyne007

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Re: Retail Development | 198 Hanover Street | North End

This is the street view from aug 2017. Has the policy / enforcement changed since then?



Either way, holy hell this should be a bunch of cafe tables with umbrellas on them, and maybe some trees too.
That's a different parcel (it's the one directly next to this one across Salem St) but it's the same "street" that is allegedly "closed to cars." Apparently this part in front of Petes is open to cars/parking and the one on this "piazza" parcel is not.
 

CSTH

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Ok, got it - thanks for the correction.

And yes either way crazy for these to be anything but plaza
 

Charlie_mta

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Before the Big Dig, the car parking area is where Cross Street actually was. It was probably a bone thrown to the North End to help them accept the Big Dig (someone had mentioned this above).
 

LowerRoxbury

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It's rather bold to be this lazy with a true once in a lifetime opportunity. A new entrance to Boston's historic and very authetic Italian neighborhood, The North End? Burn this proposal. And then go do some homework and come back with Italian passion. What a joke!
 

Charlie_mta

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There is no tunnel underneath the car parking area, so they could extend a proposed building out to leave room for a wide sidewalk instead of a plaza. Of course that would mean eliminating the parking, which is political suicide.
 

datadyne007

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There is no tunnel underneath the car parking area, so they could extend a proposed building out to leave room for a wide sidewalk instead of a plaza. Of course that would mean eliminating the parking, which is political suicide.
I don't think a building should be there. I like the scale and massing of the proposed building as is. I think this area in front (they're literally calling it a piazza!) should be a vibrant pedestrian plaza with seating, tables, trees, places were street performers can perform, etc.
 

odurandina

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I think this area in front (they're literally calling it a piazza!) should be a vibrant pedestrian plaza with seating, tables, trees, places were street performers can perform, etc.
Certainly agree with that. But 2 floors of retail, and another 2 or 3 floors of residential or a small boutique hotel would have worked fine here. The design's physical appearance is not only, weak. i can't see how a squat plaza serves the neighborhood's interests, not to mention locals and visitors whose numbers will increase when the new projects fill in (listed below)... This seems not to be good planning, but instead, likely reflects the narrow interests of some nimby who didn't want his/her views of the Greenway and sacred historical sites over yonder blocked. These narrow interests always seem to be backed by a general zero tolerance approach from the North End nimby mafia.

new/ proposed projects in the neighborhood that would potentially support the "mallette."

1. Bulfinch Triangle apartments & hotel (recently opened)
2. Valenti Square boutique hotel
3. Dock Square Garage development
4. Harbor Garage
5. 50 Sudbury residential
6. 339' resident highrise at GCG
7. Haymarket hotel
 
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datadyne007

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I think it steps up from the Greenway to North End nicely. It's a nice transition building.

Greenway +0.0
Greenway Pergola +15.0
This building +30.0
North End +40.0-60.0
 

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