Northeastern University Multipurpose Athletic Facility | 262 St. Botolph Street | Fenway

Equilibria

Equilibria

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This should have its own thread.

8/20 BCDC presentation: https://bpda.app.box.com/s/d1ci5vkojqro48l9kgbvx45c8yxfgtko
PNF: https://bpda.app.box.com/s/ieoz97glv2vnbnuztblr9zjypslwb2ut

They spend a lot of time here focusing on exterior materials ("See guys? It's technically brick. That makes it okay to destroy the oldest operating arena in the US and replace it with a contextually-alien UFO!")

They got a request to honor the history of the site, and their response is honestly insulting. They want to do a "reflective space" with anodyne things like "you inspire me" inscribed on bricks down one side of the building. You'd think a massacre took place here, not historic, joyous sporting events - the render literally looks like the Vietnam Veterans Memorial in DC.

NU needs to be told to take this back to the drawing board completely.

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Dimitri71 said:
Looks like they're trying to model this in the style of the two new science buildings.
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It's a decision alright, albeit a questionable one. The two new science buildings work with the more-modern materials they selected over there, but the brick here just isn't working.

I would honestly appreciate a red brick (similar to what is shown on slide 17) to make it a tad more digestible since it'd fit a bit more into the surrounding neighborhood fabric, but it'd be only a slight slight improvement. White brick would make a little less sense here, since Matthews is a tad removed from the rest of campus.

100% on board with the mural push, would give the building a little bit more personality, and Northeastern's commitment to public art these last few years have been a very welcome addition to the campus. But that doesn't do much to save the building when looking at the larger massing from afar, which is especially noticeable in the renderings from places like Carter Field when this building is put in contrast with the school being re-built on the SW corridor.
 
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Wow, so ugly, also why no housing tower on top of podium? Seems like that would be a location there would be little community opposition. Its a huge site. Could probably fit two dorm towers with 1600 beds.
 
no big surprise here they destroyed the opera house for a dormitory parking lot
 
Matthews is ugly and nothing special. The brick arch is kinda cool. Whatever, this matches the NEC buildings across the street. Biggest miss is not putting dorms on top imho.
 
curcuas said:
Matthews is ugly and nothing special. The brick arch is kinda cool. Whatever, this matches the NEC buildings across the street. Biggest miss is not putting dorms on top imho.
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Matthews is ugly and nothing special because Northeastern ruined it. It used to look like this:

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And it was down the street from Mechanics Hall, that looked like this:

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These universities have more money than deities, and surely this is a pretty expensive design as it is. If you're going to callously mistreat the world's oldest multipurpose athletic building, which has hosted events by Theodore Roosevelt, Amelia Earhart and JFK, boxing matches going back to Jack Sharkey and Jack Dempsey, a rodeo with Roy Rogers, foundational rock-and-roll concerts by Jerry Lee Lewis, Chuck Berry, Buddy Holly, and The Doors (among many others)... at the very least you could try to make what you build after tearing it down reflect the history of the site rather than your MIT wannabe science and tech buildings that will look dated by 2030. This is one of the few places NU has where actual important history took place (they also have the site of the first World Series, but they've marked it and South End Grounds would never have made it to the present day). By two years, this is the oldest sporting venue in Boston - it's older than Fenway Park. The reason people don't immediately think of it as a landmark is because Northeastern has so effectively degraded it, underinvested in it, and hidden it. Probably part of the motive for that was that on a land-constrained campus they didn't want people to value it too much so that they could re-use the property if needed.

That Matthews Arena isn't a registered historic landmark is frankly crazy to begin with.
 
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To go along with that, I think what's frustrating here is that Matthews Arena belongs to Boston more than it belongs to Northeastern. Not in terms of actual ownership but that so much of importance to the city happened in that building. With the new building, Northeastern is claiming that space fully as it's own, walling off (almost literally) that once public space to be used for school purposes only. That's the root of the crime.

I've had a thought looking through the renders that the arena portion is almost beside the point - there's cross sections but no renders of the seating bowl or sense of the game day experience. That's simply not as important to the school as these additional spaces to attract students. Contrast that with BU, where they've positioned Agganis not just as their home rink but as a major part of the city's entertainment offerings. NU wants nothing to do with that, which is their prerogative, but they surely could achieve it without totally denying the city this piece of it's history.
 
"What Does the History of the Site Mean to this New Building?"
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I guess they just... talked about this verbally with no images? I find it sort of funny that there's not a single photo of the existing arena, let alone the entry arch - the one remaining architecturally significant moment. Would be so cool to see that preserved into the new iteration like it was between the original and its current pomo life.
 
Equilibria said:
Matthews is ugly and nothing special because Northeastern ruined it.
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I wouldn't be surprised if you were correct here, but really, did Northeastern ruin this? The picture you posted is from the arena's heyday in the 20's or 30's. Northeastern didn't buy the arena until 1979. What did it look like then? I'm pretty sure I've read that a lot of the elaborate entrance didn't survive the Great Depression (though I can't find my source, so take that with a grain of salt). In the 70's, Northeastern wasn't the rich powerhouse it is today and Boston was a generally run down city. That time and place, I assume Northeastern bought a pretty derelict building and fixed it up enough to keep it running another half century.
 
History of the Arena here.
https://nuhuskies.com/sports/2013/4/3/GEN_0403130702

Northeastern did preserve a small part of the old, original entrance. Google streetview

https://maps.app.goo.gl/PL1brNTFXNJ2AS1p7

The original. (There are photographs from the 1930s showing it still existed then.)
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IMO, the significance and history of the Matthews (nee Boston) Arena is far greater than that of Shreve Crump & Low building, for example. And this history ought to be referenced and commemorated in a meaningful way in the proposed multi-purpose arena.
 
curcuas said:
Biggest miss is not putting dorms on top imho.
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Is that possible to do above an arena building? Are there any examples of towers directly above arenas, or rather towers with an arena on the lower levels?
 
Wonk said:
Is that possible to do above an arena building? Are there any examples of towers directly above arenas, or rather towers with an arena on the lower levels?
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One end has a parking lot and an attached building that is not arena qua arena. At the very least those should be a tower.

On the arena side, the first thing that comes to mind is the Columbia University gym is the bottom few floors of a tower with cavernous open spaces.
 
Equilibria said:
Matthews is ugly and nothing special because Northeastern ruined it. It used to look like this:

View attachment 54462

And it was down the street from Mechanics Hall, that looked like this:

View attachment 54463

These universities have more money than deities, and surely this is a pretty expensive design as it is. If you're going to callously mistreat the world's oldest multipurpose athletic building, which has hosted events by Theodore Roosevelt, Amelia Earhart and JFK, boxing matches going back to Jack Sharkey and Jack Dempsey, a rodeo with Roy Rogers, foundational rock-and-roll concerts by Jerry Lee Lewis, Chuck Berry, Buddy Holly, and The Doors (among many others)... at the very least you could try to make what you build after tearing it down reflect the history of the site rather than your MIT wannabe science and tech buildings that will look dated by 2030. This is one of the few places NU has where actual important history took place (they also have the site of the first World Series, but they've marked it and South End Grounds would never have made it to the present day). By two years, this is the oldest sporting venue in Boston - it's older than Fenway Park. The reason people don't immediately think of it as a landmark is because Northeastern has so effectively degraded it, underinvested in it, and hidden it. Probably part of the motive for that was that on a land-constrained campus they didn't want people to value it too much so that they could re-use the property if needed.

That Matthews Arena isn't a registered historic landmark is frankly crazy to begin with.
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I hear you, this is just not the current state and it's unclear how you commemorate this...at all. Maybe they should build a retro arena that looks like old Matthews, but it's not clear to me what that solves.
 
Wonk said:
Is that possible to do above an arena building? Are there any examples of towers directly above arenas, or rather towers with an arena on the lower levels?
Click to expand...
This is the inverse, but one of the best building reuses is the old Maple Leaf Gardens in Toronto, which was converted into a multi-use facility with a supermarket on the lower levels and then Ryerson University's athletic center above, including a 2,500 seat arena at the top. Very cool in that, as the PWHL uses that rink, pro hockey is still being played in a building that opened over 90 years ago.

I believe that creating enough clear space without columns to fit a rink and the seating bowl while still supporting the weight from above is the major limiting factor and why it's not usually done. Just spanning those distances can lead to issues, there's a few arenas (Hartford, Kemper Arena in KC) that had roof collapses in the 70s/80s from snow and rain loads. Not that there aren't arenas that aren't at the bases of other structures - Ottawa's TD Place Arena is built under the grandstand of a football stadium, a sort of extreme variant on Conte Forum, but you can see by the photos that they had to seriously compromise the seating arrangements to make that work.
 
curcuas said:
I hear you, this is just not the current state and it's unclear how you commemorate this...at all. Maybe they should build a retro arena that looks like old Matthews, but it's not clear to me what that solves.
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I think there's architectural cues you could pull from the 1910-1930 style of arena (it would look pretty cool). Without knowing the details of the structural engineering, I think it probably should be possible to build around the existing arena - take the pitched roof off, put a steel frame around it to support your other athletic uses above, and renovate the bowl. That way you can say you kept the historic arena while still serving your need for a multipurpose complex.

Basically, do the reverse of this: https://www.naiop.org/research-and-...draws-cheers-for-a-daring-stadium-renovation/

This is what they want to do, floor plan wise. It seems to me that they're shifting the bowl slightly toward St. Botolph while keeping it basically the same spacing between Gainsborough and the Alley. Without having full blueprints of the current arena I can't say for sure, but it seems like they could maintain the current arena bowl and just wrap it in a building that does what they need it to do while evoking the architecture of the period.

I'll admit there aren't many projects that try to do that nowadays, but 1910 was also when Belmont Park opened, and UBS Arena does try to play off of that: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UBS_Arena

There's also Dickies Arena in Fort Worth: https://www.bcsnn.com/basketball/36...kies-arena-in-the-2024-coast-to-coast-classic

Heck, even American Airlines Arena in Dallas gives it a pretty good go: https://www.dallassports.org/venues/

The original Boston Arena architecture, which was consistent with 19th Century event-specific temporary structures (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World's_Peace_Jubilee_and_International_Musical_Festival) isn't done a ton today with all the ornate, almost circus-esque detail, but that doesn't mean you can't do it if you try.

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Arenacale said:
This is the inverse, but one of the best building reuses is the old Maple Leaf Gardens in Toronto, which was converted into a multi-use facility with a supermarket on the lower levels and then Ryerson University's athletic center above, including a 2,500 seat arena at the top. Very cool in that, as the PWHL uses that rink, pro hockey is still being played in a building that opened over 90 years ago.

I believe that creating enough clear space without columns to fit a rink and the seating bowl while still supporting the weight from above is the major limiting factor and why it's not usually done. Just spanning those distances can lead to issues, there's a few arenas (Hartford, Kemper Arena in KC) that had roof collapses in the 70s/80s from snow and rain loads. Not that there aren't arenas that aren't at the bases of other structures - Ottawa's TD Place Arena is built under the grandstand of a football stadium, a sort of extreme variant on Conte Forum, but you can see by the photos that they had to seriously compromise the seating arrangements to make that work.
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I don't think there are columns in their plans for the new arena, though. They frame around it just like they could around the existing arena.
 
Equilibria said:
I don't think there are columns in their plans for the new arena, though. They frame around it just like they could around the existing arena.
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I get that, I was referring to the idea of putting a full dorm tower over the arena at the base. I agree with your premise - they really could just use the existing bowl, perform the structural repairs and simultaneously build out the infrastructure around it and achieve the same goals.
 
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