One Kenmore Square | 560 Commonwealth Avenue | Kenmore Square

[Beton Brut]

Re: Crossroads at Kenmore | 560 Commonwealth Ave | Kenmore Square

Atrium?

It would appear so. The late John Portman would be very pleased. The curved form of the "dripping" elements reminds me of Portman's lozenge-shaped scenic elevators.

Studying the widening profile of the tower, I think there are a couple of things to consider: first, this may be enhanced for effect in the rendering, with the built version to be more subtle (see StudioGang's Vista Tower in Chicago). In regard to the risks of falling ice, we had a similar issue during my time working on DFCI's Yawkey Center; the solution was a low-voltage system using heated wire. It was deployed on problematic regions of the facade, and that was that. I'll bet there's something similar on the cantilever balconies on the Aqua and the sloping facade of Vista in Chicago.

And Jeanne Gang has great taste; this scheme owes something to one of my favorite unbuilt Wright projects, the Rogers Lacy Hotel. (Someone show this to Don Chiofaro.)

 

[odurandina]

Re: Crossroads at Kenmore | 560 Commonwealth Ave | Kenmore Square

You're an odd duck. This building is quite tall for the area, and probably the boldest statement since Mass Art's Tree House... and you hate it???

NYC was doing perfectly fine before it started some of these stupid buildings that weren't needed (not even to break up the dull doing the same thing). Doing the same, and doing things with a wide variance of height and doing those things GREAT, Central Park East!!, tradition; tall skyscrapers like (40 Wall Tower, Citicorp, Chrysler Bldg, etc) is what NYC does best imo.

Boston has not been building particularly well, or tall enough for decades. This problem of no variance of height not only creates a bad astetic, it also contributes to serious revenue shortfalls.

Now to make up for just building properly, we'll just start doing (stupid) in the short, squat Boston tradition and call it (bold).

What's the value here? We're going in the wrong direction. This ain't New York. It's Comm Ave. Boston is provincial. i just don't see the benefit of building stuff that so rudely clashes with our traditional Boston things so close by; sections of 2 neighborhoods with iconic row house architecture--just so we can say WOW look at that weird twist on the classic NYC Flatiron Building! Look at this ugly stack of books! Weeeee!!

We can accomplish 'bold' by adding an attractive variance of height in the form of some beautiful new buildings to what's already there. i don't totally hate this thing. Just get the sq ft out with a straight flatiron, 400' tall.

Maybe they can have it so it bulges it out in the middle (Preggo). Go for that. The cleaver's top edge leaning out over Kenmore? i love that too!

Incredible potential in the Fenway and Mission Hill is being squandered with over the top nimby obstructionism resulting in (lame bullshit). There's way too much Flynn/Menino Boston undercurrent going on with planning. What could not be more obvious; is what few spaces remain in the Fenway that can go taller than 100~140'–should be modeled after Central Park East starting about 72nd St to the area roughly about 96th.

Projects like 290 Tremont, 45 Worthington St, The Clarendon with a few bends here and there to help with shadow/s is the correct model for the the New York Streets, the Fenway, Mission Hill, and a few crossings in Dorchester, Roxbury & JP.

 

[bdurden]

Re: Crossroads at Kenmore | 560 Commonwealth Ave | Kenmore Square

^The only thing this will rudely clash with is the Hotel Commonwealth.

Just because you don’t like something, it doesn’t make it bad. Just because you do like something, it doesn’t make it good.

At one time Boston was a provincial city. That ship sailed south. I’m sure you can find a historic southern city or two in the low country that better suits your needs for rigid contextuality at all costs (start with Charleston).

 

[JumboBuc]

Re: Crossroads at Kenmore | 560 Commonwealth Ave | Kenmore Square

In regard to the risks of falling ice, we had a similar issue during my time working on DFCI's Yawkey Center; the solution was a low-voltage system using heated wire. It was deployed on problematic regions of the facade, and that was that. I'll bet there's something similar on the cantilever balconies on the Aqua and the sloping facade of Vista in Chicago.

So basically just a gutter cable on a much bigger scale.

 

[Beton Brut]

Re: Crossroads at Kenmore | 560 Commonwealth Ave | Kenmore Square

Pretty much, yes.

Digging into the original posts, John Keith's question, and my response.

 

[datadyne007]

Re: Crossroads at Kenmore | 560 Commonwealth Ave | Kenmore Square

Heat trace always. fails. Too many architects rely on it instead of coming up with innovative solutions that are appropriate for the region's climate.

 

[jass]

Re: Crossroads at Kenmore | 560 Commonwealth Ave | Kenmore Square

The tower is lovely.

I have very grave misgivings about the traffic plan, rooted in three interrelated elements:

• The "psychographic" of the New England motorist;
• The functionality of this system of intersections in a severe weather event;
• Boston's historic mismanagement of traffic-control systems.

As always, data (i.e. traffic counts) without context and narrative isn't really actionable. I understand and endorse the imperative of making Kenmore safer for pedestrians and cyclists, but I'm not sure this approach can succeed here.

I have been thinking about it, and I fully agree. The problem is you have too many intersections close together. Also, people already love to block the block in Boston, and t-intersections basically beg to be blocked because theres so little consequence.

IE: If you sit your ass in the middle of a standard intersection, youre clearly in the wrong because youre blocking straight traffic (people do it anyway). But if you block a t-intersection, you can claim you have the right of way over turning traffic so screw them. its much more common.

You have a recipe for gridlock here.

Any traffic model needs to show bad behavior.

 

[George_Apley]

Re: Crossroads at Kenmore | 560 Commonwealth Ave | Kenmore Square

Those are fair criticisms. I wonder how much that also applies to the existing streetscape. I regularly see folks cutting across lanes in Kenmore at traffic signals, not to mention the impressive speeds folks fly through when they have greens.

BPD really just needs to start heavily enforcing "don't block the box". Take a few rush hours and issue a few hundred tickets. People will get the message.

 

[tobyjug]

Re: Crossroads at Kenmore | 560 Commonwealth Ave | Kenmore Square

Time for "Kenmore Circus". Big rotary down at that end to ingest all the streets.

 

[jass]

Re: Crossroads at Kenmore | 560 Commonwealth Ave | Kenmore Square

Streetsblog posted an article about it, written by the designer.

https://usa.streetsblog.org/2019/02/01/how-to-fix-a-fork-in-the-road/

One of the comments actually flips the idea around and in terms of traffic circulation, I like it better - but it kills the entire square idea.

 

[sm89]

Re: Crossroads at Kenmore | 560 Commonwealth Ave | Kenmore Square

One of the comments actually flips the idea around and in terms of traffic circulation, I like it better - but it kills the entire square idea.

Their proposed square is in the middle of the intersection surrounded by roads with the exception of their building on one side. Wouldn't it be more accessible if it where the "bend Beacon" alternative?

(This feels like the Inman Sq debate all over again)

 

[odurandina]

Re: Crossroads at Kenmore | 560 Commonwealth Ave | Kenmore Square

I'm surprised nobody ripped the rest of these pictures. I don't know the right way to do it so I use snipping tool and save the pictures to flickr.

Capture by David Z, on Flickr

Capture by David Z, on Flickr

Capture by David Z, on Flickr

Capture by David Z, on Flickr

So i guess it will actually look very good/less wonky from the street level.

Still, that first render really gets you. Crazy building.

 

[DAVE]

Re: Crossroads at Kenmore | 560 Commonwealth Ave | Kenmore Square

I like it...its one of the few cohesive massings I've seen in Boston. Usually we get odd pieces at the top or on the side or the base that ruin the form. This could be one of the coolest looking buildings to stand at the base of and just look up.

There also seems to be a level of creepiness to the way it looks like its dripping, or melting. I dig it. The colors are nice too. Burnt orange seems to be the new boston color.

 

[stick n move]

Re: Crossroads at Kenmore | 560 Commonwealth Ave | Kenmore Square

We need some charlesgate west. This cluster + the pierce is great, the BU + Allston yards cluster will be awesome too... also the BU tower already looks tall but will seem even taller once the pike is at ground level, then the New Balance cluster with the hotel and residential towers + the tower across the street is going to really pull Boston out west making the city feel much bigger. Right now it feels like you get into the city once you come around the curve and pass the BU tower and even then it still feels like it really starts when you come around the curve with yawkey station on the right and the back bay skyline comes into view. The city will feel a lot bigger with these projects and it will be.

 

[HenryAlan]

Re: Crossroads at Kenmore | 560 Commonwealth Ave | Kenmore Square

We need some charlesgate west. This cluster + the pierce is great, the BU + Allston yards cluster will be awesome too... also the BU tower already looks tall but will seem even taller once the pike is at ground level, then the New Balance cluster with the hotel and residential towers + the tower across the street is going to really pull Boston out west making the city feel much bigger.

Already, the city feels much bigger to any of us who have been here for more than a decade or so. I was in the Seaport on Saturday for the Extreme Beer Fest and somewhat amazed by just how filled out it finally is and by just how big it seemed. Thinking back to the sea of windswept parking lots, the transformation is comprehensive. Add something of similar scale between BU and Harvard and the downtown core of the city will have tripled in size (especially if you also consider Kendal Square). I am very excited by this prospect.

 

[Beton Brut]

Re: Crossroads at Kenmore | 560 Commonwealth Ave | Kenmore Square

I have been thinking about it, and I fully agree.

The only consensus I'm looking to build here is that we ask hard questions of traffic engineers and other experts who may not be entirely familiar with the "conditions on the ground" beyond traffic counts...

Any traffic model needs to show bad behavior.

A chain is as strong as its weakest link. In that spirit, some other questions:

• What does the computer model look like (at least) 81 times a year?
• Given Kenmore's proximity to the LMA, how would an ambulance navigate through this new alignment (in ideal or adverse conditions)?
• What's MASCO's position on this possible change?
• How will traffic in the Kenmore be impacted by the BU Data Science project?
• How will the Commonwealth Avenue corridor be impacted by the Mass Pike/Soldiers Field Road project?

 

[stick n move]

Re: Crossroads at Kenmore | 560 Commonwealth Ave | Kenmore Square

Already, the city feels much bigger to any of us who have been here for more than a decade or so. I was in the Seaport on Saturday for the Extreme Beer Fest and somewhat amazed by just how filled out it finally is and by just how big it seemed. Thinking back to the sea of windswept parking lots, the transformation is comprehensive. Add something of similar scale between BU and Harvard and the downtown core of the city will have tripled in size (especially if you also consider Kendal Square). I am very excited by this prospect.

Definitely and it will be cool to expand west also.

 

[atlantaden]

Re: Crossroads at Kenmore | 560 Commonwealth Ave | Kenmore Square

BPD really just needs to start heavily enforcing "don't block the box". Take a few rush hours and issue a few hundred tickets. People will get the message.

Start installing cameras above these intersections like many other cities are doing. Trust me, the numbers of people running red lights, blocking intersections, etc. drops once those tickets start arriving in the mail, and everyone else become aware of the cameras. Tough to fight a photo in court. PS...love the building! Hope it get's built as shown or at the very least, with minor needed changes.

 

[JumboBuc]

Re: Crossroads at Kenmore | 560 Commonwealth Ave | Kenmore Square

A chain is as strong as its weakest link. In that spirit, some other questions:

• What does the computer model look like (at least) 81 times a year?
• Given Kenmore's proximity to the LMA, how would an ambulance navigate through this new alignment (in ideal or adverse conditions)?
• What's MASCO's position on this possible change?
• How will traffic in the Kenmore be impacted by the BU Data Science project?
• How will the Commonwealth Avenue corridor be impacted by the Mass Pike/Soldiers Field Road project?

-Kenmore is already an absolute mess (at least) 81 times a year.

-An ambulance heading to Longwood through Kenmore would be looking to turn onto Brookline Ave. This redesign has no effect on Brookline Ave-bound traffic coming from the east on either Commonwealth or Beacon. If an ambulance is heading for Longwood from the west on Beacon it likely would have already turned onto Longwoord at Coolidge Corner, onto Kent St, or onto Park at Audobon Circle before hitting Kenmore; even if it did make it to Kenmore its turn onto Brookline would also not be affected by this redesign. The only route that would possibly change at all would be for ambulances coming from the west on Commonwealth, and they (assuming they didn't already get on Longwood or Park) would just turn behind the "Citizens Bank building" building instead of in front of it. Drop a destination pin in the middle of the LMA on Google Maps and you'll see that there are very few origins from which you'll be routed through the heart of Kenmore. I have a hard time seeing how this would hinder that at all. But even for those origins that do route through Kenmore, this project will simplify the light cycle and ease passage through the square from all directions.

-How would traffic in the Kenmore be impacted by the BU Data Science project? That project will probably take over the street parking on Commonwealth in the short-turn (and maybe close one of two lanes). But once complete everything will go back to normal. I don't see how that would affect Kenmore.

-The Pike/SFR project could increase Comm Ave traffic, but the key issue here is that Kenmore is already a mess. I'm a big believer in "if it a'int broke don't fix it," but that doesn't fit Kenmore. It's not like Kenmore works thanks to a carefully balanced hard-to-put-your-finger-on equilibrium and "fixing" it will only throw that off (see, e.g., the Sumner and Callahan tunnels in Eastie). Kenmore is "broke."

 

[Beton Brut]

Re: Crossroads at Kenmore | 560 Commonwealth Ave | Kenmore Square

-Kenmore is already an absolute mess (at least) 81 times a year.

I agree. And further, I think this plan does a lot to make things safer for cyclists and pedestrians. But we can't avoid the fact that this is the confluence of three arterial roads. I'm as yet unconvinced that this is the right fix.

-An ambulance heading to Longwood through Kenmore would be looking to turn onto Brookline Ave. This redesign has no effect on Brookline Ave-bound traffic coming from the east on either Commonwealth or Beacon.

Understood. But I'd like to see the projected time to traverse Kenmore with the new alignment and the what jass refers to as "bad behavior."

-How would traffic in the Kenmore be impacted by the BU Data Science project?

To clarify, I mean during construction (especially if the projects are built simultaneously).

-(see, e.g., the Sumner and Callahan tunnels in Eastie).

I'm asking these questions here based on my empirical knowledge of the Sumner fiasco.