Orlando, FL

oh yeah, from my visit, Key West is awesome and very urban. Miami is crap though, its honestly more "third world" than most third world cities. And, Fort Lauderdale is nice, but not urban.
 
Shepard said:
Has anyone here been to Saint Augustine? A medieval Spanish street grid of narrow cobblestone paths, strong concentration of cafes and boutiques, a low-rise center with high density - and not a single starbucks! There are interesting historical sites (very well-preserved Spanish fort for example), an architecturally interesting liberal arts college campus (Flagler College) and a cute waterfront area (the beach itself is further away) which houses some of the larger hotels.

If you haven't been I strongly recommend google streetviewing around it. Start at St George Street and look around the streets and alleys around it north of King Street (which is probably the most "developed" thoroughfare in the center) - and also Aviles and Charlotte streets south of King Street and surrounds. It's very surprising. The urbanism of the center around St George and King Streets tapers off somewhat quickly in all directions, but even the single family home areas nearby are dense for Florida and very walkable for anywhere - not a single cul-de-sac in the immediate vicinity - and full of bed and breakfasts which give those areas a greatly enhanced vitality too.

(I once asked a Floridian friend why it was such a well-kept secret. "No secret," she told me. "...just that Floridians don't talk about it because they hate that kind of thing: too dense and hard to drive."
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Very cool. Something tells me that Florida is home to the oldest European settlement in the USA...it isn't St. Augustine is it? I could be wrong, don't have the facts in front of me.
 
bdurden said:
As far as I am aware, there are no strip malls in South Beach. In fact, last I remember there were 1 or 2 developable parking lots left. The urban character tapers off in Mid and North Beach, though I've noticed in recent years the redevelopment pushing Northward.
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You know what, I am probably just lumping everything in that area together as South Beach. Our hotel was in SB, and I believe the Lincoln Road Mall was, too, but maybe I am confusing north beach and other areas as part of SB? I thought south beach was everything waterside of that bridge (I can't explain it better than that, but its "the" bridge typically seen in movies, long and running over the water connecting Downtown to SB. Is that not the case? Maybe it was north beach that I didn't like.
 
bdurden said:
ablarc did a great Celebration photoessay: http://wirednewyork.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4245&
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Very nice essay, thank you for sharing. I think the street signs are the most "theme-parky" bit of the whole show, but otherwise agree with ablarc's comments on that site that it looks like a small traditional city. What bothers me, though, is that it looks like an island or urbanity amidst suburban sprawl (from the last aerial). Baby steps, I guess. Otherwise very cool.
 
Patrick said:
Very cool. Something tells me that Florida is home to the oldest European settlement in the USA...it isn't St. Augustine is it? I could be wrong, don't have the facts in front of me.
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Patrick, yes - that's true, Saint Augustine is the oldest European settlement in the USA. The historical character, and some of the historical sites themselves, are well-preserved.

CZSZ - true, there are parking lots spread around. I'd still say, though, that the center is overall very urban in that it is both walkable and dense. The parking lots are small parcels, and probably necessary since there's no viable alternative to driving into the center (CR might be a possibility in the near future). You wouldn't drive around once you're in the center - the streets are too narrow; most of the hotels don't have valet rings, etc. That's what makes this to me much less auto-oriented than South Beach.
 
Patrick---Most people in Miami Beach consider SOUTH BEACH is everything south of 23rd street. Mid Beach runs up to approximately 75th street (this includes Millionaires Row or streets in the 50s as well as the Eden Roc and Fontaineblu Hotels) and north beach is up to 96th street where it becomes Bal Harbour.

Some day there will be mass transit from Miami Beach across Biscayne Bay to Miami proper. The elderly have always nixed any proposal to build a mass transit connector...knowing they'd never be around to see their tax dollars at work. But, with a younger population and the huge influx from South America...it might happen this decade.
 
Does anyone else feel that Key West is a disappointment, urbanistically? It's true that the island isn't littered with cul-de-sacs and acres of beige cookie-cutter developments... but...

Much of the prime coastline is claimed by exclusive resorts or hotels, the entire area near the southern beaches consist of single family bungalows along gridded streets that often don't have sidewalks - actually, thats true of most of the island, in fact - and the "city" in the northwest corner contains some luxury shopping, tourist traps, and disappointing "beachy-themed" restaurants. I get the impression that locals steer clear of that touristville and head instead to Route 1 on the northeast shore where the strip malls, KMarts, IHops, Outback Steakhouses, etc. are arrayed just like Anywhereville, Florida.
 
The appeal of Key West : 1.) off Duval street are the pastel colored single family homes which resemble those "up north". 2.) getting drunk. 3.) the drive on US 1 through the keys.
 
I took a bike tour through Key West, its awesome throughout the entire city, very urban, very vibrant, and beautiful, I would say its among the best urban environments in the Americas for a town of around 25k. Didn't even feel American, more like an English-speaking Caribbean city.
 
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