Orlando, FL

[bdurden]

I spent the holiday in Orlando -- these pictures are from downtown Orlando, an urban, pedestrian friendly area miles away from the sprawl of the attractions. Urban minded people would do themselves a favor by heading downtown when visiting for Disney, Universal. This area has really come to life over the last decade. Commuter rail will be running by 2012 and that new Magic arena is just spectacular.

 

[Shepard]

I've always wanted to visit downtown Orlando, but alas am typically stuck in Kissimmee. And, with local Floridians usually saying "there's nothing there anyway" (verbatim words I've heard countless times) I haven't had any personal incentive to look around.

From the pictures, it looks a bit Disneyfied. Are there condos/lofts downtown? Is public transit a viable option? And are there amenities to live in an urban context? (I did notice the Publix in that great Deco-style building in one of your shots). The combination of wide roads with pedestrian-oriented pavers was interesting to see - certainly looks like an effort is being made.

Also, it looks cold.

Thanks again!

 

[Patrick]

If I hadn't seen it with my own eyes, I wouldn't believe that was Orlando, FLA. Great shots and thanks for sharing. I don't think it looks Disneyfied, although I understand the worry (Disney World, as some may know, built some sort of a new urbanist village right next to it....rrrr....fake urbanism is almost worst than sprawl). I think Downtown looks spectacular, and thanks again.

 

[JohnAKeith]

Initial thoughts are that they did a good job of cohesiveness. Negatives are: where the hell are all the people? Did you take those during early-morning hours and/or during weekends? Maybe because of the holidays there weren't many people in downtown. I notice that there's a rail-line right through the middle of town - interesting.

The streets look absolutely spotless. No dirt or trash anywhere in sight.

So you spent your holidays staying at the Parliament House? Awesome. Ha, ha.

 

[Lrfox]

Sweet. This just blew my mind. I had in my head that Orlando is a sprawl nightmare with no pedestrian friendly areas outside of the theme parks.

 

[BostonUrbEx]

Wow, I was clueless as to the fact Orlando had a "downtown". I thought the only big thing was Disney and Universal, maybe some hotels scattered around.

This looks pretty cool.

 

[bdurden]

I've always wanted to visit downtown Orlando, but alas am typically stuck in Kissimmee. And, with local Floridians usually saying "there's nothing there anyway" (verbatim words I've heard countless times) I haven't had any personal incentive to look around.

From the pictures, it looks a bit Disneyfied. Are there condos/lofts downtown? Is public transit a viable option? And are there amenities to live in an urban context? (I did notice the Publix in that great Deco-style building in one of your shots). The combination of wide roads with pedestrian-oriented pavers was interesting to see - certainly looks like an effort is being made.

Also, it looks cold.

Thanks again!

Not sure what you mean by Disneyfied. According to Wiki, the downtown population is 20,159, and based on my observations I would say that sounds about right. Daytime population is estimated at 72, 500.

Orlando experienced a decade of boom that has now slowed. Most of the buildings surrounding the lake that is pictured (Lake Eola) are condo buildings (including the building with the ground floor Publix). What is not pictured, and is perhaps even more surprising to those unfamilar with Orlando, are the neighborhoods that surround downtown (particularly Thornton Park, College Park, Lake Eola Heights, and Delaney Park). They are a craftman-style paradise mixed with med revival flair and 50s modernism pre-dating the arrival of Walt Disney World. I'd say it is certainly possible to live in an urban context in this part of Orlando -- I'll go as far to say that downtown Orlando is the most successful urban environment in Florida outside South Beach. In terms of mass transit alternatives, there is a free bus circulator that seems well used (called Lymmo), and commuter rail is approved and u/c.

 

[bdurden]

If I hadn't seen it with my own eyes, I wouldn't believe that was Orlando, FLA. Great shots and thanks for sharing. I don't think it looks Disneyfied, although I understand the worry (Disney World, as some may know, built some sort of a new urbanist village right next to it....rrrr....fake urbanism is almost worst than sprawl). I think Downtown looks spectacular, and thanks again.

Actually, Celebration is not nearly as fake and terrible as you might assume. I quite enjoyed it, architecturally.

 

[bdurden]

Initial thoughts are that they did a good job of cohesiveness. Negatives are: where the hell are all the people? Did you take those during early-morning hours and/or during weekends? Maybe because of the holidays there weren't many people in downtown. I notice that there's a rail-line right through the middle of town - interesting.

The streets look absolutely spotless. No dirt or trash anywhere in sight.

So you spent your holidays staying at the Parliament House? Awesome. Ha, ha.

Ha -- only a patron to the Parliament House! I stayed at the Grand Bohemian Hotel (11th picture from the top, highly recommended!). I'd say these were taken between 10-noon on Dec 26th, so it was a bit sleepy.

 

[Lrfox]

Not sure what you mean by Disneyfied. According to Wiki, the downtown population is 20,159, and based on my observations I would say that sounds about right. Daytime population is estimated at 72, 500.

Orlando experienced a decade of boom that has now slowed. Most of the buildings surrounding the lake that is pictured (Lake Eola) are condo buildings (including the building with the ground floor Publix). What is not pictured, and is perhaps even more surprising to those unfamilar with Orlando, are the neighborhoods that surround downtown (particularly Thornton Park, College Park, Lake Eola Heights, and Delaney Park). They are a craftman-style paradise mixed with med revival flair and 50s modernism pre-dating the arrival of Walt Disney World. I'd say it is certainly possible to live in an urban context in this part of Orlando -- I'll go as far to say that downtown Orlando is the most successful urban environment in Florida outside South Beach. In terms of mass transit alternatives, there is a free bus circulator that seems well used (called Lymmo), and commuter rail is approved and u/c.

I really feel sort of dumb for just assuming that Orlando had no urban environment at all.

Would you say downtown Orlando is more successful than Ybor City (Tampa)? I was pleasantly surprised with that area. Also found South Beach to be a bit overrated (aside from the obvious spots) and VERY small (in terms of the real urban area). It's still probably the best in Florida.

I know we're all supposed to cheer density and denounce suburbia, but I love me some craftsman homes. I stayed with friends in Atlanta's Buckhead section who had a beautiful one. Not large (2 bedrooms), but gorgeous and in a relatively walkable area.

 

[datadyne007]

Love the Brutalist Orlando Public Library!

 

[Patrick]

Negatives are: where the hell are all the people?

Disney World. When we were Downtown Orlando (2005), there were more people on the streets, but still less than you would imagine. Miami was worse. Downtown Miami was devoid of much activity (everyone was inside privatized entrance condos and Office Towers (which look great from afar, but are anti-urban up close...this may change, however, with the adoption under Manny Diaz of Miami 21 (FBC for whole city, total zoning overhaul, with the idea of making Miami somewhat Parisian).

Back on Orlando, though...I think the city has great potential. It is the gateway to Florida by air, with over 80,000 passengers arriving daily.

 

[Patrick]

I'll go as far to say that downtown Orlando is the most successful urban environment in Florida outside South Beach. In terms of mass transit alternatives, there is a free bus circulator that seems well used (called Lymmo), and commuter rail is approved and u/c.

Are you from Orlando or around it? Sounds like you know a lot. Interesting about the inner ring neighborhoods. What I remember from being in Orlando is that there were a lot of abandoned cars along the road. I have no idea why, but that stuck out to me. I don't mean a ton, but like three or four...still more than I have ever seen anywhere else, though.

Interesting what you mentioned about Miami Beach. I am reading a book by Doris Goldstein, attorney for Seaside, and Miami Beach (Ocean Street is it?) is cited as a good mixed use "new" urbanist example (I know its not new). I liked the street very much, but don't think its better than a place like Newbury Street in Boston (which I hear referenced less). The Lincoln Road Mall is fantastic (a great nearby South Beach shopping district, outdoor mall, very walkable with plenty of posh restaurants, chic clothing stores, lots to see, eat, and do, and even a few stores for the average person! Ha!). What disappointed me most about South Beach is that aside from the two or three streets which get all the acclaim (and they deserve it), there was just blocks and blocks of strip malls with very low-end stores in them. It seems like you could turn a corner an be in a totally different neighborhood. Also, aside from Downtown Portland, there were probably more homeless people living on the street in South Beach than I have ever seen anywhere else.

The view of Downtown Miami from the top floor of our hotel (which was a fitness center...but lets just say I said I was going to work out just to sit on the deck and look at the buildings a few miles away) was astounding. The skyscrapers just go on and on and on there. Another problem Miami Beach has is its isolation from Miami proper. We had to take a bus (that took forever to arrive) just to get Downtown, and when we got there, there was nothing to do. All in all, I think it was a good place to see, and MB had some great aspects, but I think Orlando might even have a leg up on it (and that's what prompted this tangential rant). I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.

 

[Patrick]

Actually, Celebration is not nearly as fake and terrible as you might assume. I quite enjoyed it, architecturally.

Never been, but have heard things. I guess my comment applied more broadly, though, too, in the sense that anything that tries to re-create an authentic experience outside of its traditional environment (like urbanism in the middle of a parking lot or romanticized wild africa in Florida is somewhat "Disneyfied."). I would like to see Celebration some day, and if you have any pictures I'd like to see those too.

 

[czsz]

Celebration is too a real place. It just had its first ever homicide!

I have to say that the sidewalk-oriented Publix is the most surprising thing in this post. There aren't even many urban supermarket chains in Boston.

As for urban environments in Florida...I've heard semi-positive things about Ybor City in Tampa. And Downtown Naples, which has always been mostly walkable, has built itself up quite a bit as an "urban" center in the last 15 years or so.

 

[Shepard]

Has anyone here been to Saint Augustine? A medieval Spanish street grid of narrow cobblestone paths, strong concentration of cafes and boutiques, a low-rise center with high density - and not a single starbucks! There are interesting historical sites (very well-preserved Spanish fort for example), an architecturally interesting liberal arts college campus (Flagler College) and a cute waterfront area (the beach itself is further away) which houses some of the larger hotels.

If you haven't been I strongly recommend google streetviewing around it. Start at St George Street and look around the streets and alleys around it north of King Street (which is probably the most "developed" thoroughfare in the center) - and also Aviles and Charlotte streets south of King Street and surrounds. It's very surprising. The urbanism of the center around St George and King Streets tapers off somewhat quickly in all directions, but even the single family home areas nearby are dense for Florida and very walkable for anywhere - not a single cul-de-sac in the immediate vicinity - and full of bed and breakfasts which give those areas a greatly enhanced vitality too.

(I once asked a Floridian friend why it was such a well-kept secret. "No secret," she told me. "...just that Floridians don't talk about it because they hate that kind of thing: too dense and hard to drive."

Edit: for some reason the links aren't stable, and some (not all) go to different places than I intended. It's pretty easy to scout out all these locations in Streetview even without the links.

 

[bdurden]

Are you from Orlando or around it? Sounds like you know a lot. Interesting about the inner ring neighborhoods. What I remember from being in Orlando is that there were a lot of abandoned cars along the road. I have no idea why, but that stuck out to me. I don't mean a ton, but like three or four...still more than I have ever seen anywhere else, though.

Interesting what you mentioned about Miami Beach. I am reading a book by Doris Goldstein, attorney for Seaside, and Miami Beach (Ocean Street is it?) is cited as a good mixed use "new" urbanist example (I know its not new). I liked the street very much, but don't think its better than a place like Newbury Street in Boston (which I hear referenced less). The Lincoln Road Mall is fantastic (a great nearby South Beach shopping district, outdoor mall, very walkable with plenty of posh restaurants, chic clothing stores, lots to see, eat, and do, and even a few stores for the average person! Ha!). What disappointed me most about South Beach is that aside from the two or three streets which get all the acclaim (and they deserve it), there was just blocks and blocks of strip malls with very low-end stores in them. It seems like you could turn a corner an be in a totally different neighborhood. Also, aside from Downtown Portland, there were probably more homeless people living on the street in South Beach than I have ever seen anywhere else.

The view of Downtown Miami from the top floor of our hotel (which was a fitness center...but lets just say I said I was going to work out just to sit on the deck and look at the buildings a few miles away) was astounding. The skyscrapers just go on and on and on there. Another problem Miami Beach has is its isolation from Miami proper. We had to take a bus (that took forever to arrive) just to get Downtown, and when we got there, there was nothing to do. All in all, I think it was a good place to see, and MB had some great aspects, but I think Orlando might even have a leg up on it (and that's what prompted this tangential rant). I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.

As far as I am aware, there are no strip malls in South Beach. In fact, last I remember there were 1 or 2 developable parking lots left. The urban character tapers off in Mid and North Beach, though I've noticed in recent years the redevelopment pushing Northward.

 

[bdurden]

Never been, but have heard things. I guess my comment applied more broadly, though, too, in the sense that anything that tries to re-create an authentic experience outside of its traditional environment (like urbanism in the middle of a parking lot or romanticized wild africa in Florida is somewhat "Disneyfied."). I would like to see Celebration some day, and if you have any pictures I'd like to see those too.

ablarc did a great Celebration photoessay: http://wirednewyork.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4245&

 

[bdurden]

Celebration is too a real place. It just had its first ever homicide!

I have to say that the sidewalk-oriented Publix is the most surprising thing in this post. There aren't even many urban supermarket chains in Boston.

As for urban environments in Florida...I've heard semi-positive things about Ybor City in Tampa. And Downtown Naples, which has always been mostly walkable, has built itself up quite a bit as an "urban" center in the last 15 years or so.

Ybor has an interesting history -- a good read is Havana Nocturne which describes the Mafia's Havana operations which were run out of Ybor. The Columbia Restaurant is still there and has the best Cuban around. Unfortunately Ybor is not as cohesive as it once was -- it does have the streetcar that makes it easier to get to/from downtown Tampa, but infill has been slower and the daytime population is virtually nonexistent. What was once a vibrant Cuban community is now equivalent to a large Lansdowne Street.

 

[czsz]

Shepard, thanks for those St. Augustine street views...I've seen one or two before, but I guess most tourists taking snapshots haven't really diligently profiled the place. Unfortunately, many of the shots revealed large parking lots after rotating only slightly in any one direction...

While we're compiling this list we can't forget Key West! Completely walkable and surprisingly dense in parts; I think the entire island was pretty much gridded out in the 19th century and has only filled in and grown out this basic infrastructure since.