Penn Station: Then and Now

There's no direct subway connection, you have to transfer at 42nd Street. I generally walk to the east side, but if you have heavy bags or something, then I'd either cab it, or use the cross-platform transfer at New Rochelle.

Honestly, the only time I really considered it was to go from Boston to Tarrytown on the Hudson line.

If you're going to splurge on Acela then transferring at New Haven doesn't really make any sense. The price difference is minimal, but the time difference is maximal.
 
Another classic train station, that wasn't torn down is the Kansas City Union Station - I believe it's now a Science Center and no trains run there - but it's a beautiful building. We restored the interior clock - which I think is patterned after the original Penn Station Clock. Some photographs below.


Union%20Station%20Kansas%20City%20Tower%20Clock1.JPG




Thomas D. Erb
Electric Time Company, Inc.
97 West Street
Medfield, MA 02052
http://www.electrictime.com
Tower & Street Clocks Since 1928
 
czsz said:
If you're on Acela, switching at New Rochelle is not an option.

And it's still probably quicker to take the subway from Penn to the East Side than to switch to a Metro North train and endure the wait for the transfer and local stops. Hell, you could probably walk to the East Side from Penn faster.
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But you can switch in Stamford where they often have New Haven line express trains every 30 mins.
 
Do those go direct to Grand Central? I don't think so.

Do you have to wait extra time to catch them? Probably in most cases, I'd imagine.
 
czsz said:
Do those go direct to Grand Central? I don't think so.

Do you have to wait extra time to catch them? Probably in most cases, I'd imagine.
Click to expand...

Oh my , whens the last time you been to Grand Central? The New Haven line network feeds into GCT...from Connecticut/I-95 Corridor. Usually 10-15mins or there right across the platform...

mnrmap.png
 
Yeah, if I'm taking the Acela, I'm going direct. Doesn't make any sense to do bizarre transfers that mean unplugging and packing up my laptop and waiting out in the cold for a train that may or may not be there soon.
 
Matthew said:
New Haven? So far out, that's 2 hours ride on MetroNorth.

New Rochelle is much closer.

But doing it to avoid NYP is kind of silly. After all, you arrive at the same crusty platforms that were there a century ago. It's just the upper levels that have changed, and you exit them quickly. Go to GC if you want to get to the East Side fast.
Click to expand...

Not even every Regional stops at New Rochelle.

For that matter, not every Metro-North train does, either.

Stamford's a legitimate option, but it's slightly cheaper to transfer at New Haven and the time difference is negligible.

Also, consider that "the same crusty platforms" are part of the whole uniquely awful experience. It doesn't matter how old they may or may not be.

I'm not going out of my way to avoid NYP because I have fake nostalgia for a station that got torn down decades before I was born, nor am I avoiding it out of some kind of misguided protest effort. I'm avoiding it because NYP is a legitimately awful experience - the same way I absolutely refuse to fly anywhere, ever, because flying is also a legitimately awful experience.
 
Nexis4jersey said:
Oh my , whens the last time you been to Grand Central? The New Haven line network feeds into GCT...from Connecticut/I-95 Corridor. Usually 10-15mins or there right across the platform...
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By "direct" I mean those trains have more intermediate stops between either New Haven or New Rochelle and Grand Central than any Amtrak train.

I don't get why waiting 15mins in the cold at some provincial station and then sitting through additional station stops is any better than going up a couple pairs of escalators between the platform and the street at NYPenn, but to each his own.
 
dshoost88 said:
Surprised this hasn't been mentioned yet:

http://gothamist.com/2012/07/11/first_look_at_amtraks_267_million_m.php
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Oh God...boondoggle spelled in all-caps. Amtrak doesn't really even want that because it's a gigantic resource suck from funding the Gateway Tunnel, which is what they really need. But they're going along with it because it's Chuck Schumer's favorite pork project evar, and they're simply going path of least resistance chasing the funding where the funding thrust is. $1.5B for largely cosmetic improvements that don't get rid of the bunker or improve the existing platforms, and nobody seriously expects it to cost any less than 2x that or finish within 8 years of the already generous 2025 completion date. The 8 new platforms are going to be almost entirely NJ Transit's gain because if Gateway's built the new majority-intercity routing largely pins Amtrak onto the old station. Moynihan's mostly a commuter rail load-shifter, and the fact that they're chasing this first before doing any major mitigation to the bunker is almost farcial.

It's not that it isn't a desirable thing to have. But they get vastly higher bang-for-buck getting Gateway built sooner and making improvements to the bunker. That's what'll net the most tangible operational improvements. They can wait until Madison Square Garden V is built onsite in some future generation and incorporate Moynihan Pyramid into that. I know NYC's more deserving than most cities of a transit crown jewel and there's visceral resentment to what happened to the classic Penn. But Moynihan's a gigantic distraction from less sexy stuff that matters way more.
 
Ron Newman said:
What is the Gateway Tunnel?
Click to expand...

Its part of a New Rail Network here in New Jersey , along 2-3 more tracks so that the NEC is 5 tracked , 5 tracked high level Portal Bridge , a Newark Bypass and Massive Flood protected Kearny JCT.
 
Even though classes have started again, I still have too much free time, so I decided to see exactly how much time is lost if you change trains in NHV.

On any given weekday, here's every southbound Amtrak arrival into NHV (excepting #67 which arrives at 12:30 AM and is useless for the purposes of this exercise), with their respective arrivals into NYP and travel time included for reference:
  • #2151: Arrives NHV 7:11 AM, Arrives NYP 8:45 AM (94 minutes)
  • #141 (from SPG): Arrives NHV 7:28 AM, Arrives NYP 9:20 AM (112 minutes)
  • #2153: Arrives NHV 8:15 AM, Arrives NYP 9:40 AM (85 minutes (skips STM))
    • #2155 stops at STM but skips over NHV and seems to be the only train that does so.
  • #95: Arrives NHV 8:41 AM, Arrives NYP 10:20 AM (99 minutes)
    • #495 (from SPG): Arrives NHV 8:35 AM
  • #171: Arrives NHV 10:39 AM, Arrives NYP 12:16 PM (97 minutes)
  • #2159: Arrives NHV 11:18 AM, Arrives NYP 12:45 PM (87 minutes)
  • #93: Arrives NHV 12:09 PM, Arrives NYP 1:50 PM (101 minutes)
    • #83 runs instead of #93 on Fridays, but both trains are identical as far as WAS
    • #493 (from SPG): Arrives NHV 11:50 AM
  • #2163: Arrives NHV 1:18 PM, Arrives NYP 2:45 PM (87 minutes)
  • #173: Arrives NHV 1:39 PM, Arrives NYP 3:16 PM (97 minutes)
  • #2165: Arrives NHV 2:18 PM, Arrives NYP 3:45 PM (87 minutes)
  • #2167: Arrives NHV 3:18 PM, Arrives NYP 4:45 PM (87 minutes)
  • #137: Arrives NHV 4:08 PM, Arrives NYP 6:00 PM (112 minutes)
  • #55 (from SAB): Arrives NHV 4:30 PM, Arrives NYP 6:24 PM (114 minutes)
  • #2171: Arrives NHV 5:18 PM, Arrives NYP 6:40 PM (82 minutes)
  • #175: Arrives NHV 5:48 PM, Arrives NYP 7:20 PM (92 minutes)
    • #475: Arrives NHV 5:35 PM
  • #2173: Arrives NHV 6:38 PM, Arrives NYP 8:05 PM (87 minutes)
  • #2175: Arrives NHV 7:29 PM, Arrives NYP 8:55 PM (86 minutes)
  • #177: Arrives NHV 8:12 PM, Arrives NYP 9:50 PM (98 minutes)
  • #179: Arrives NHV 9:10 PM, Arrives NYP 10:45 PM (95 minutes)
    • #479 (from SPG): Arrives NHV 8:50 PM
And here's a list of all departing Metro-North trains (excepting the trains that leave before 7:11 AM and the two that leave after 9:17 PM), with the nearest possible Amtrak connection and travel times included for reference:
  • #1533: Departs 7:31 AM, Arrives 9:07 AM (96 minutes) - 3(!) minute connection from #141, arrives 13 minutes before #141
  • #1535: Departs 7:22 AM, Arrives 9:18 AM (116 minutes) - 11 minute connection from #2151, arrives 33 minutes after #2151
  • #1537: Departs 8:04 AM, Arrives 9:36 AM (92 minutes) - 36 minute connection from #141, arrives 16 minutes after #141
  • #1539: Departs 7:55 AM, Arrives 9:47 AM (112 minutes) - 27 minute connection from #141, arrives 27 minutes after #141
    [*]#1541: Departs 8:17 AM, Arrives 10:01 AM (104 minutes) - 2(!) minute connection from #2153, arrives 21 minutes after #2153
  • #1545: Departs 8:50 AM, Arrives 10:29 AM (99 minutes) - 9 minute connection from #95 (15 minute connection from #495), arrives 9 minutes after #95
  • #1549: Departs 9:30 AM, Arrives 11:12 AM (102 minutes) - 49 minute connection from #95 (55 minute connection from #495), arrives 52 minutes after #95
    [*]#1551: Departs 10:09 AM, Arrives 11:50 AM (101 minutes) - 88 minute connection from #95 (94 minute connection from #495), arrives 90 minutes after #95
  • #1555: Departs 10:53 AM, Arrives 12:41 PM (108 minutes) - 14 minute connection from #171, arrives 25 minutes after #171
  • #1559: Departs 11:53 AM, Arrives 1:41 PM (108 minutes) - 35 minute connection from #2159, arrives 56 minutes after #2159
    [*]#1563: Departs 12:53 PM, Arrives 2:41 PM (108 minutes) - 44 minute connection from #93/83 (63 minute connection from #493), arrives 51 minutes after #93/83
  • #1567: Departs 1:53 PM, Arrives 3:41 PM (108 minutes) - 14 minute connection from #173, arrives 25 minutes after #173
  • #1569: Departs 2:33 PM, Arrives 4:15 PM (102 minutes) - 15 minute connection from #2165, arrives 30 minutes after #2165
  • #1571: Departs 2:53 PM, Arrives 4:44 PM (111 minutes) - 35 minute connection from #2165, arrives 59 minutes after #2165
  • #1573: Departs 3:31 PM, Arrives 5:15 PM (104 minutes) - 15 minute connection from #2167, arrives 30 minutes after #2167
  • #1575: Departs 3:52 PM, Arrives 5:47 PM (115 minutes) - 36 minute connection from #2167, arrives 62 minutes after #2167
  • #1577: Departs 4:23 PM, Arrives 6:17 PM (115 minutes) - 15 minute connection from #137, arrives 17 minutes after #137
  • #1579: Departs 4:47 PM, Arrives 6:47 PM (120 minutes) - 17 minute connection from #55, arrives 27 minutes after #55
  • #1581: Departs 5:35 PM, Arrives 7:18 PM (103 minutes) - 17 minute connection from #2171, arrives 38 minutes after #2171
  • #1583: Departs 6:00 PM, Arrives 7:51 PM (111 minutes) - 12 minute connection from #175 (25 minute connection from #475), arrives 31 minutes after #175
  • #1587: Departs 6:53 PM, Arrives 8:41 PM (108 minutes) - 15 minute connection from #2173, arrives 36 minutes after #2173
  • #1591: Departs 7:53 PM, Arrives 9:42 PM (109 minutes) - 24 minute connection from #2175, arrives 47 minutes after #2175
  • #1595: Departs 9:17 PM, Arrives 11:05 PM (108 minutes) - 7 minute connection from #179 (27 minute connection from #479), arrives 20 minutes after #179
Red color indicates especially bad connections - ones that have you stuck in NHV for more than 30 minutes, or ones that arrive more than 40 minutes after you would've gotten there had you not switched. #1533 is written in gold because it holds the distinction of actually managing to reach New York before the Regional you connect to it from, assuming you can make the three-minute transfer.

Having taken the time to compare schedules this way, I have come to the conclusion that #95, #171, or #173 are the trains you want to be on if you plan on switching - with #171 being the best one to get on from BOS and #95 being the best one to get on from anywhere in Rhode Island.

Fare-wise, it costs less to transfer at NHV than it would to go direct to NYP (and depending on when and where you book, perhaps significantly less), there's plenty of options that have you spending little to no time cooling your heels in NHV, thanks in part to Metro-North's tendency to spitefully run their trains in front of Amtrak's, for the most part they aren't particularly slower, and you get to avoid the perpetual shitshow that is NYP.

I mean, sure, riding into NHV from anywhere west of Newark just to double back is kind of ridiculous, but if you're coming in from NHV or anywhere east of it, switching trains isn't a bad idea at all if you go in planning to do it - and for the most part, if you're coming in from the north (HFD or SPG), it's an absolute no-brainer since with only two exceptions, you'll need to switch trains anyway, and switching off of the direct Regional out of SPG actually puts you in New York faster than staying on it would.
 
I did the Amtrak-to-Metro North transfer once in 2010 when the New Haven Regional I was booked for got canceled by a yard derailment at D.C. Union that was fucking up traffic up and down the NEC all day. Ended up trading down to the next NYP-terminating Regional, then doing the NYP-GCT subway transfer, then picking up a Metro North off-peak to NHV. Few extra steps, but the transfer really isn't bad and I ended up saving a ton of money on the last leg with the (then) $13 MNRR off-peak fare. Travel time's not bad at all for the huge number of stops, and GCT is extremely well laid-out...from top of the subway stairs to tix machine to outbound platform was like 5 minutes (again, off-peak).

It's definitely a viable cost-saver if you can swing the transfers and aren't too time-sensitive.
 
NYP is really its own special hell. One of my more recent trips to my parents took me over three hours to do the Secaucus shuffle at rush hour because my train out of NYP dumped its breaks just as we were pulling out, and the resulting delay caused us to miss our slot through the tunnels. Another one didn't open up for over an hour, and by that time the only train I could catch on the PJ line was a Bergen local, which is something like a two hour trip time into Orange County. When all was said and done I think it took me almost 12 hours to go around 200 miles. In retrospect I could have ridden my bicycle and gotten there sooner.

The station today still has the same basic configuration as its predecessor. It would have been a much prettier hell to burn in, but still hell.

Granted, most of the time I am in and out of NYP fast enough to not notice how packed and claustrophobic it is. NYC based transit seems to fail much less then the MBTA, but man when it does its way worse.
 
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