Penny per mile odometer tax

Arlington

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IIRC, the Oregon test involved reading the Odometer at an annual inspection.

I think they can make VMT cheating unlikely by reading the digital display on the dash together with pulling collateral data from the OBDC (that they're already relying on for emissions compliance).

"Antique" cars might have to have a high flat tax if they have mechanical odometers or pre 1996 (primative or lacking OBDC)
 

tangent

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IIRC, the Oregon test involved reading the Odometer at an annual inspection.

I think they can make VMT cheating unlikely by reading the digital display on the dash together with pulling collateral data from the OBDC (that they're already relying on for emissions compliance).

"Antique" cars might have to have a high flat tax if they have mechanical odometers or pre 1996 (primative or lacking OBDC)
I think you can only bend over backwards so far to prevent criminal tax fraud. Most people aren't going to be putting antiques up on blocks and running them backwards to avoid a per mile odometer tax... running the engine would cost more than the tax. Or manually running it backwards some other way seems like it won't be worth the effort plus risk of committing a felony. People would mostly comply.
 

fattony

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I think you can only bend over backwards so far to prevent criminal tax fraud. Most people aren't going to be putting antiques up on blocks and running them backwards to avoid a per mile odometer tax... running the engine would cost more than the tax. Or manually running it backwards some other way seems like it won't be worth the effort plus risk of committing a felony. People would mostly comply.
Although it didn't happen in a John Hughes movie, the more likely concern is that one can disconnect the odometer in old cars. Usually that also disconnects the speedometer, but the kind of people who disconnect their odometer also don't really care about speeding.
 

tangent

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Although it didn't happen in a John Hughes movie, the more likely concern is that one can disconnect the odometer in old cars. Usually that also disconnects the speedometer, but the kind of people who disconnect their odometer also don't really care about speeding.
Well, chances are if people are using old or antique cars then they are paying a bigger gas tax per mile... I think it works out.
 

Arlington

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Well, chances are if people are using old or antique cars then they are paying a bigger gas tax per mile... I think it works out.
Kinda? Old engines put out a lot of smog gases (Volitile Organic Compounds (unburned fuel) and NOx Nitrogen-Oxygen compounds)

Worst are the old mopeds & 2 strokes where you can see the bluish exhaust so full of unburnt petro-stuff that they have exhaust you can smell.

I'd like to price that, and it isn't reflected in fuel per mile (particularly with the motorcycles).


Source: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41612-018-0037-5
 

HenryAlan

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No, just current odometer reading minus previous odometer reading times a 0.01 cents (or whatever is needed). All the infrastructure is in place for that already.
This is largely how I picture it -- you are assessed the tax when you get your new inspection sticker. But it would have to be quite a bit more that 0.01 cents, as that would only be a dollar for a car driven 10,000 miles.
 

cadetcarl

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Skimmed back through this discussion and maybe I missed the mechanism for inter-jurisdiction trips--apologies if I did:

If my only VMT for a tracking period were a round trip to, say, NYC, then I traveled ~400 mi. total but only 130 mi. in MA, the two 65 mi. legs of the Pike and 84. I think it would have to be transponder based because if we did the simple odo reading, MA would get to assess me for all 400 miles right? I'd have spent most of the trip beating up Connecticut roads and they'd have no way to recoup the costs. Unless there's one big pool of money collecting all mileage taxes I can imagine some states getting boned by this. How would one deal with NH commuters? Is the assumption (probably accurate) that most people spend most of their mileage in their home state?

Again I apologize if some fundamental part of this is going over my head, but would we not need to be more granular in any case about who collects the revenue?

Edit: does the following make sense: this seems less like a post-electric revolution solution and more like an emissions-control mechanism--there's only one "environment" and so if jurisdictions were restricted to funneling these funds directly into renewables etc, then it wouldn't matter who gets to hit you up, as emitting anywhere would yield the same effect, which is not true of wear/repair of roads in one place versus another.
 

Arlington

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^ I *virtually never* buy gas in CT or NY or PA...I only buy in MA, NH, NJ or VA... timing my refills for low tax jurisdictions.

The VMTs "interjurisdiction"issues are probably less significant than those we already have for gas tax.--e.g. the guy in Tyngsborough or Methuen who always buys his gas in New Hampshire.

Most trips are local. paying VMT to the jurisdiction where the car is domiciled is probably the fairest possible system --fairer even than a gas tax
 
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tangent

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Skimmed back through this discussion and maybe I missed the mechanism for inter-jurisdiction trips--apologies if I did:

If my only VMT for a tracking period were a round trip to, say, NYC, then I traveled ~400 mi. total but only 130 mi. in MA, the two 65 mi. legs of the Pike and 84. I think it would have to be transponder based because if we did the simple odo reading, MA would get to assess me for all 400 miles right? I'd have spent most of the trip beating up Connecticut roads and they'd have no way to recoup the costs. Unless there's one big pool of money collecting all mileage taxes I can imagine some states getting boned by this. How would one deal with NH commuters? Is the assumption (probably accurate) that most people spend most of their mileage in their home state?

Again I apologize if some fundamental part of this is going over my head, but would we not need to be more granular in any case about who collects the revenue?

Edit: does the following make sense: this seems less like a post-electric revolution solution and more like an emissions-control mechanism--there's only one "environment" and so if jurisdictions were restricted to funneling these funds directly into renewables etc, then it wouldn't matter who gets to hit you up, as emitting anywhere would yield the same effect, which is not true of wear/repair of roads in one place versus another.
I would put the onus on drivers to claim the miles where driven outside of Massachusetts and seek a rebate or deduction via their income tax returns. I think it makes sense in those cases to use some sort of electronic record keeping. I don't see the need to make this into some sort of massive monitoring scheme. People should keep enough records if they are going to claim a deduction that they will need in an audit.
 

tangent

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This is largely how I picture it -- you are assessed the tax when you get your new inspection sticker. But it would have to be quite a bit more that 0.01 cents, as that would only be a dollar for a car driven 10,000 miles.
10,000 x 0.01 = $100

So based on a quick search that seems like it would raise about $500 million per year in taxes for local and state road maintenance.
 
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tangent

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Yeah, I was going on this statement:



which means 1/10,000 of a dollar.

0.01 = 1 cent, so 0.01 x 0.01 x 10,000 = 1
Thanks for catching my mistake. Yes, penny per mile should do it.
 

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