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Patrick
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Thanks for update. know any more about it? Is danforth and high still a go?
FrankLloydMike
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I just checked out some photos of St. Lawrence and the website of the arts center. The impression I get from the website is that the sanctuary was dismantled because of a structural collapse, but the photos look more like a demolition. Is the intent that the entire sanctuary will be rebuilt, and if so how closely will it recreate the original? I'm usually against faux-historicism, but this sounds like one case where thoughtfully and meticulously rebuilding the structure very close to its original form sounds appropriate. Were they able to preserve much of the original structure to reuse? Munjoy Hill seems like a very interesting neighborhood so close to downtown and the water, and it seems like there are a lot of local, neighborhood-focused businesses in the area of St. Lawrence, so it would be a real shame to lose such a prominent structure permanently.
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Todd
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Munjoy Hill is a cool neighborhood...the St Lawrence Center will be a great addition. I do think there could be sone more businesses along Congress st. Some have popped up, just have to keep the trend going
Not sure if anyone else is a big map nerd like myself, but google earth has some really fresh satellite views of Portland. Looks to be about two months old I'd guess. Jordan's is half torn down and the airport expansion is in full-swing. Not sure when they uploaded it but it looks great. Portland is so green.
Forsest City Peninsula:
Eastern Waterfront / "New Port?"
Bayside:
Forsest City Peninsula:
Eastern Waterfront / "New Port?"
Bayside:
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Portlander
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Nice catch Corey, I have been waiting for a satellite update for a couple of years now!
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Patrick
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the old bingas on congress is torn down and ready to rock and roll with Random Orbitz's co-work development.
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Patrick
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rail extension from Portland to Brunswick (Amtrak intercity rail) is set to begin construction today. The projection is that this will increase ridership on the Portland to Boston route that currently exists by 10%, with most additions coming from tourists. Because the engineering was already complete for this project, it is one of the first to be funded by the Obama administration's commitment to investing in high speed intercity rail lines connecting American towns and cities.
^It's almost hard to believe that it's finally happening. Any updates on exactly what route the train will take from the current Portland Transportation Center through Portland?
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Patrick
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I know what you mean, corey. Thanks to the Obama administration, this thing got a big boost and has been expedited quite a bit. The franklin arterial project is following a similar path, because phase II will include engineering and feasibility studies, all of which will take place BEFORE funding is in place, so that WHEN funding is in place, it will be just a matter of saying "go". Franklin, Cumberland, and several other City streets are actually state owned highways, which qualify for additional funding. So that should be useful, assuming the foresight of local and state planners and politicians ever aligns...
As for the route, I have no idea. I know that the last connection between Portland, Freeport, and Brunswick was about 50 years ago, with the Maine Central Railroad, which I believe utilized a route that skirted the peninsula (i.e. it did NOT go through bayside or the waterfront). I think that's probably where this line will be, too, (outside of the peninsula) but I have no idea where. At one point a connection that would have required a rail bridge over forest ave was contemplated, but was rejected early on due to the high cost.
I also know that the regional director of Amtrak has expressed willingness to discuss a passenger platform somewhere on the western waterfront, by Gorham's corner, but that is just an idea at this point. Also, I don't know if service would just halt there, or continue northward. It would make more sense to continue northward along commercial, but as I said I really have no idea where the planned extension line is.
I'm pretty excited about this. Linking cities together by rail is an excellent idea. Not just Portland to Boston, but even Portland to Freeport would be great. Freeport is a walkable tourist shopping destination (in fact, its the biggest draw in the state) and a rail stop there will be perfect, whereas a rail stop in Kittery would hardly be of benefit to anyone. Did I mention freeport is awesome? What a fun little town. Granted its a tourtist destination and not much else, but still fun all the same. The movie theatre will be great.
As for the route, I have no idea. I know that the last connection between Portland, Freeport, and Brunswick was about 50 years ago, with the Maine Central Railroad, which I believe utilized a route that skirted the peninsula (i.e. it did NOT go through bayside or the waterfront). I think that's probably where this line will be, too, (outside of the peninsula) but I have no idea where. At one point a connection that would have required a rail bridge over forest ave was contemplated, but was rejected early on due to the high cost.
I also know that the regional director of Amtrak has expressed willingness to discuss a passenger platform somewhere on the western waterfront, by Gorham's corner, but that is just an idea at this point. Also, I don't know if service would just halt there, or continue northward. It would make more sense to continue northward along commercial, but as I said I really have no idea where the planned extension line is.
I'm pretty excited about this. Linking cities together by rail is an excellent idea. Not just Portland to Boston, but even Portland to Freeport would be great. Freeport is a walkable tourist shopping destination (in fact, its the biggest draw in the state) and a rail stop there will be perfect, whereas a rail stop in Kittery would hardly be of benefit to anyone. Did I mention freeport is awesome? What a fun little town. Granted its a tourtist destination and not much else, but still fun all the same. The movie theatre will be great.
Today's story about the rail expansion has a 'staff graphic' of the route, which I assume is correct:
Looks like it will use those tracks that cut through Woodford's Corner. I'll still keep my hopes up for a stop closer to downtown Portland until I see the actual blueprints.
Looks like it will use those tracks that cut through Woodford's Corner. I'll still keep my hopes up for a stop closer to downtown Portland until I see the actual blueprints.
I think the expansion is great, but only for schlepping tourists back and forth -- read: a mild boost to the state's tourism, and that's it. Since I doubt there will be a downtown platform, Portland residents with cars will find it difficult to justify a train ride to Freeport or Brunswick. According to the METRO 5 schedule, it takes 10 minutes to ride the bus from Elm Street to the PTC, and before that, probably another 5 or 10 minutes to walk to Elm. I have a car and can probably get to Freeport in a third of the time it takes to get to the train, wait for it to depart, and then get there.
I have to facepalm because the lack of a downtown route also kills commute options for most people going to Brunswick. As a Portland resident I'm not too excited about it all, but it's an incremental improvement, I guess. Perhaps bicycle commuters would see the most benefit?
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Patrick
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excellent points Jubal. It isn't really intercity rail if it only links the suburbs. I spoke with a Portland councilor who said there is an effort in the works to have a platform constructed somewhere near the casco bay bridge for amtrak to drop passengers off at before it returns to the PTC and heads north to brunswick. This is not a concrete proposal, but an effort. It may work out perfectly. Also, Portland North, the MDOTs commuter project, is considering commuter rail that might conceivably share the same tracks and drop passengers off right at on commercial street. Have hope. Thanks for the graphic corey, it will be those tracks that cross forest ave several times it looks like.
Take this for what it's worth as I have very little except someone's "word" to back it up. A few days ago in Boston I was talking to a friend of a friend from Portland. He works for Metro. Now, again, I know NOTHING about this so it could be complete crap but this is what he said:
"Portland has scrapped the idea of a downtown station because the ROW downtown is going to be included in a bike path/walkway project. Once that begins, it will be nearly impossible to return the ROW back to rail."
He went on to say that aside from the fact that it will no longer be a ROW, it will be impossible to turn public opinion in favor of expanding rail downtown if it means destroying a bike path/ walkway. Once again, I have heard NOTHING about this from you who seem to be in the know. I haven't lived in Portland in well over a year, nor have I been there within the past 4 months so I'm going on what some dude I don't know told me. Just figured I'd throw it out there and see if anyone has any idea about this.
"Portland has scrapped the idea of a downtown station because the ROW downtown is going to be included in a bike path/walkway project. Once that begins, it will be nearly impossible to return the ROW back to rail."
He went on to say that aside from the fact that it will no longer be a ROW, it will be impossible to turn public opinion in favor of expanding rail downtown if it means destroying a bike path/ walkway. Once again, I have heard NOTHING about this from you who seem to be in the know. I haven't lived in Portland in well over a year, nor have I been there within the past 4 months so I'm going on what some dude I don't know told me. Just figured I'd throw it out there and see if anyone has any idea about this.
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Patrick
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My understanding is that the right of way to which you are referring is on the south side of commercial street, whereas the bike/ped pathway that has been contemplated is planned for the north side of the street (behind that little brightly colored strip of buildings on the western portion of the street in the middle of nowhere).
Also, turning it into a ped pathway would require the rail company (pan am I believe) to relinquish all property interests in the row. They may do that, as they did in Bayside, but much more likely in my opinion is for them to want to continue to use the row as a rail corridor. That being said, things move slow around that part of town, so I really have no idea what is what anymore as regards this either. At one point, the school of law tried to build in that neck of the woods, but environmental constraints prohibited it.
Edit -- it is also possible that if your friend is indeed correct, the city may be planning to accommodate both rail and a ped pathway. I don't know how wide the RR ROW is, but I assume it is wider than the tracks themselves, maybe wide enough to include a parallel ped path?? Don't know.
Also, turning it into a ped pathway would require the rail company (pan am I believe) to relinquish all property interests in the row. They may do that, as they did in Bayside, but much more likely in my opinion is for them to want to continue to use the row as a rail corridor. That being said, things move slow around that part of town, so I really have no idea what is what anymore as regards this either. At one point, the school of law tried to build in that neck of the woods, but environmental constraints prohibited it.
Edit -- it is also possible that if your friend is indeed correct, the city may be planning to accommodate both rail and a ped pathway. I don't know how wide the RR ROW is, but I assume it is wider than the tracks themselves, maybe wide enough to include a parallel ped path?? Don't know.
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Patrick
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or we could just do this (watch the whole thing)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcrjV6LCNzM&feature=fvw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcrjV6LCNzM&feature=fvw
No, I think you're right. The guy seemed confident in what he was saying (this was small talk... I had never met him before and time spent in Portland was all we had in common), but he didn't really sound like he knew what he was talking about (sort of all over the place). I think I vaguely remember hearing the proposal for the bike path as you suggested (on the North side of Commercial) whereas the tracks are on the South. I also remember there being a good amount of space alongside the tracks which would, of course, leave room for both.
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Patrick
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The reason I believe it is on the north side is because I heard something about the trail going through some decommissioned tunnel or something, but then again I believe it was a tunnel for a train, so I really have no idea.
Anyway, for those following the portside residences project, here is what the city side view will look like, from the project's website:
Anyway, for those following the portside residences project, here is what the city side view will look like, from the project's website:
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Patrick
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a condo infill project of three units is planned for a site on eastern cumberland ave, just beyond washington ave. that's all the info I have.
The West Commercial St. trail would use the old railway tunnel under the bridge, and run parallel to Commercial St. on the north to connect with the new Veterans Bridge and its bike/ped path. Portland Trails commissioned a detailed engineering design last year and is fundraising for the project right now.
There's still no real plan in place for a downtown Amtrak connection - its just a vague idea at this point - but as Patrick said, there's plenty of empty land and abandoned tracks on the south side of Commercial Street. I'm not sure that the north side, where the trail is going, would be accessible to trains in any case, since the construction of the new bridge and the Fore River Parkway seems to have blocked the possibility of any future rail crossings of Commercial Street anyhow. And even if it were possible, it's hard to see how a route requiring 2 crossings of Commercial Street would be preferable to a route that doesn't need to cross Commercial at all.
I'd bet that your friend from METRO has been talking to Tony Donovan, a local railfan who perceives any bike/ped pathway as a threat to passenger rail service and has been very active in protesting Portland Trails projects in the past. I sympathize with Tony's enthusiasm for passenger rail but he is not a reliable source, and I'm afraid that in the long term he's actually damaging the state's prospects for rail service by sowing unnecessary divisions among sustainable transportation advocates.
There's still no real plan in place for a downtown Amtrak connection - its just a vague idea at this point - but as Patrick said, there's plenty of empty land and abandoned tracks on the south side of Commercial Street. I'm not sure that the north side, where the trail is going, would be accessible to trains in any case, since the construction of the new bridge and the Fore River Parkway seems to have blocked the possibility of any future rail crossings of Commercial Street anyhow. And even if it were possible, it's hard to see how a route requiring 2 crossings of Commercial Street would be preferable to a route that doesn't need to cross Commercial at all.
I'd bet that your friend from METRO has been talking to Tony Donovan, a local railfan who perceives any bike/ped pathway as a threat to passenger rail service and has been very active in protesting Portland Trails projects in the past. I sympathize with Tony's enthusiasm for passenger rail but he is not a reliable source, and I'm afraid that in the long term he's actually damaging the state's prospects for rail service by sowing unnecessary divisions among sustainable transportation advocates.
The biggest issue for a downtown station is the cost of building a mile's worth of new track and reconstructing 2-3 blocks of Commercial St. for a train to run down the middle. Judging by other urban rail projects, that would probably cost several million dollars in engineering and construction. The city and state don't have the money, and even if they did, they could potentially expand the Downeaster all the way to Lewiston/Auburn for the same amount.