Portland Passenger Rail

[Portlander]

I must say that I'm impressed with the collaborative knowledge some of you have on all things related to the railroads, their conditions, potential improvements, travel times and possible funding mechanisms! I used to play a board game called "Rail Baron" in the 90's with friends and along with my grandfather retiring from the Maine Central Railroad and walking the tracks with him as a kid I thought I was pretty well rounded! You guys are really good and thanks for the information that is being shared on this thread.

 

[markhb]

I played Rail Baron in college with a friend who cheated like hell.

 

[F-Line to Dudley]

Notice of: Virtual Public Meeting - NNEPRA

Portland Train Platform/Station Relocation Study Date/Time: Thursday, April 25, 2024 6:00 p.m. – 8:00 p.m. This live virtual meeting will be conducted via Zoom. A link to the Zoom meeting will be available on this page on the day of the meeting. The purpose and need of the project and the...

www.nnepra.com

NNEPRA holding a public meeting on the 25th re: the preliminary alternatives for moving the Downeaster Portland stop back to the mainline/Union Station.

 

[mainejeff]

I road the Downeaster for the first time last month down to Boston for the Hockey East tourney at TD Garden. Was a good experience and very convenient to where I was going (North Station). I will say however that they could use some new trains....sat in business class which was roomy and comfortable but extremely dated and run down. I was also a bit surprised by some sections of track on the way down....felt like we were going to fly off the rails at times. Finally, the price was very reasonable and a great deal when compared to other options.

 

[markhb]

I road the Downeaster for the first time last month down to Boston for the Hockey East tourney at TD Garden. Was a good experience and very convenient to where I was going (North Station). I will say however that they could use some new trains....sat in business class which was roomy and comfortable but extremely dated and run down. I was also a bit surprised by some sections of track on the way down....felt like we were going to fly off the rails at times. Finally, the price was very reasonable and a great deal when compared to other options.

Any rail you traveled on in Massachusetts belonged to the MBTA, so if the issues were there that's on them .

 

[TC_zoid]

If the Downeaster replaced its passenger cars with newer ones, similar to what I rode on from Zurich to Basel, Switzerland in the summer of 2022, and with an even more exciting dining car with better food and drink options and a to-your-seat delivery person (with an app like it's done on commercial aviation flights), I'll bet train use on the Downeaster would go up by 50%. I can't stop talking about my train experience in Switzerland (you've probably noticed). I did not want to get off the train (about a 90 min ride). The cars have interesting irregular seating patterns and firmer and more pleasant feeling seats than the thick pleather-like ones on the Downeaster. The windows are much bigger because luggage storage is primarily underneath, not above, of which results in dynamic viewing. If you want to experience better designed and cleaner cities with smart and fun transportation offerings, go to Switzerland. Just go to Basel. Utopia. It exists.

 

[markhb]

If the Downeaster replaced its passenger cars with newer ones, similar to what I rode on from Zurich to Basel, Switzerland in the summer of 2022, and with an even more exciting dining car with better food and drink options and a to-your-seat delivery person (with an app like it's done on commercial aviation flights), I'll bet train use on the Downeaster would go up by 50%. I can't stop talking about my train experience in Switzerland (you've probably noticed). I did not want to get off the train (about a 90 min ride). The cars have interesting irregular seating patterns and firmer and more pleasant feeling seats than the thick pleather-like ones on the Downeaster. The windows are much bigger because luggage storage is primarily underneath, not above, of which results in dynamic viewing. If you want to experience better designed and cleaner cities with smart and fun transportation offerings, go to Switzerland. Just go to Basel. Utopia. It exists.

As it stands, right now Amtrak wants to replace the current cars on the Downeaster with Horizons, a car that has a bad rep in cold weather. That will probably be what we have until the Airo's show up.

 

[Cosakita18]

Is the Horizon replacement a done deal? I recall NNEPRA staff not being supportive.

The Horizon coaches are -technically- newer but generally seen as inferior from both an operational and rider perspective (as you mentioned) ....and the Airo trainsets are still 4-5 years away.

 

[TC_zoid]

As it stands, right now Amtrak wants to replace the current cars on the Downeaster with Horizons, a car that has a bad rep in cold weather. That will probably be what we have until the Airo's show up.

A bad rep in cold weather? In the winter the warm air and touch at the base of the window makes the ride far more pleasurable. Gov seems to always get it wrong. I think the only way we would ever have something good or much better for the Downeaster line is if Elon Musk got into train design and came to Maine to ride the Downeaster and saw the potential for something grand and gave us a deal that Gov could not refuse.

 

[Cosakita18]

As I understand it...Amtrak is pushing to replace the DE's Amfleets with Horizons because they're very short of Amfleet coaches for the Northeast Corridor and they have an excess of Horizon coaches in their Chicago equipment pool.

 

[markhb]

Is the Horizon replacement a done deal? I recall NNEPRA staff not being supportive.

The Horizon coaches are -technically- newer but generally seen as inferior from both an operational and rider perspective (as you mentioned) ....and the Airo trainsets are still 4-5 years away.

I recall that the NNEPRA BoD authorized Patricia to send a letter formally protesting the change, but I don't know if Amtrak leadership was amenable to leaving the Amfleets here or were just going to say "tough noogies."

 

[Portcity75]

Sure it’s in here somewhere but how much time would new location save ?

 

[markhb]

Sure it’s in here somewhere but how much time would new location save ?

10-16 minutes for passengers to and from north of Portland (i.e., Brunswick / Freeport / new West Falmouth stop), per the MaineDOT report. Probably save a couple of minutes between Portland and Saco due to not having to cover that extra mile to PTC at slow speed. Also, NNEPRA would no longer be on the hook for maintaining the Mountain Branch at passenger quality (although I don't know if they would retain the existing parking sidings at PTC).

MaineDOT study site is at https://www.maine.gov/mdot/planning/ptldtranportationstudy/

 

[Cosakita18]

It would be huge for ridership to/from Brunswick. Eliminating that reversing move would make the DE basically time-competitive with driving to/from Brunswick and be a good option for commuters working at Mercy / MaineMed.

 

[F-Line to Dudley]

A bad rep in cold weather?

The vestibule ends of the Horizon cars are more exposed to the elements than Amfleets, so there's been a longstanding problem of water collecting leading to slippery conditions. And the doors often get stuck when it's icy because of similar water seepage.

Chicagoland has been complaining about them for 35 years now.

 

[BosMaineiac]

Maine legislature votes down study of Portland-Bangor passenger service - Trains

AUGUSTA, Maine — A bill calling for a study to extend rail passenger service from Portland, Maine, to Bangor, via Lewiston, Auburn, and Waterville, was defeated this week in the state’s House of Representatives, CentralMaine.com reports. In a Wednesday vote, LD 860 was defeated 82-63, a week...

www.trains.com

Looks like this flew under the radar but disappointing nonetheless. While I agree a Bangor extension probably won't make financial sense for quite a while, paying $20k for a study of it is peanuts, especially since it would effect most of the Maine population's accessibility to passenger rail.

IMO, this feels like more of the same from MaineDOT, who opposed the study. Their priorities are still roads and cars. While there's been a lot of talk recently about passenger rail expansion in ME (such as Wells extra platform, PTC relocation, West Falmouth station), there's been a notable lack of action on behalf of the state transpo. agency.

 

[BosMaineiac]

Portland’s Amtrak station may move from Thompson’s Point

To shorten trip times, the operator of the Amtrak Downeaster is considering relocating the Portland station to one of 3 sites along St. John Street.

www.pressherald.com

(Sorry if it’s paywalled) Interesting to read that most of the passengers who were asked said their biggest concern was parking. In general, this isn’t the goal of relocating the station at all. Most people don’t seem to recognize the benefit of it being on the mainline for those boarding north of Portland.

Although, having a station separated from CCL will allow them to build their own parking structure and generate revenue on it.

 

[PWMFlyer]

NEPRA leases the space at Concord Coach, does everyone know this? Its there parking lots, amtrak is just a tenant and the bus company wants more parking for them. The best solution would be to utilize mmc parking garage, or build on the mercy lot with a garage. Both would serve the mainline. There is also talk about conway scenic purchasing the mountain division line which could open opportunity to the mountains and Canada.

 

[TC_zoid]

Yes, Concord Coach is probably not an amenable host for the bigger picture. The city and other cities (except Boston, which gets it right) rarely seem to plan well for their future infrastructure transportation needs. The city needs to start the process on how to get the shopping center land (back) with eminent domain, and if Maine Medical makes it difficult, expose them for what they are--a massive healthcare monopoly (de facto). Some Mainers will drive to Boston for procedures as it's cheaper there, not better (read the PPH article on that). It's a behemoth now, and twice the size of what is on the hill when considering all the out-patient and research focused buildings spread out over the city. And if they complain (probably), it's time for a lengthy PPH series on how this crucial facility for the state has grown to where and what it is. The shopping center location would be walkable to Maine Medical (ironic), Hadlock and Fitzpatrick, and USM. It's also quite bikeable to downtown and the Old Port pedaling down Congress Street. This would be a big resonating and unifying result for all of the city's residents. The 15 minute reduced trip for a small group of passengers is not the key or even a crucial part of the move. They want more autonomy. How can you blame them? Concord Coach is becoming its own kind of bus behemoth. And if it can be done, please no faux architectural look harkening back to the past. The past doesn't exist. It's only in the mind. All old buildings exist in the present, not the past. A transportation center for the future should feel like the future. Modern architecture can be just as or more exciting than the old. Stop going back there all the time. Think about the future residents, not yourselves.

 

[cneal]

The parking lots on the north side of Thompsons Point Road are actually owned by MaineDOT, and they occupy the land that the highway engineers took in the 1970s for a failed freeway spur that would have gone through the Fore River Marshes to Westbrook:

That freeway got axed when Clean Water Act regulations came into force and made it clear that the DOT's engineers wouldn't be allowed to pave over acres of marshlands like they wanted to; and also, the federal gravy train of subsidies for new highways had pretty much dried up by then anyhow.

Incidentially, the "Westbrook Arterial" is the only segment of the project that ever got built, which is why there's a bizarre orphaned stretch of freeway between Larrabee Road and downtown Westbrook. If you look at the parcel map for Westbrook, you can see the land that the DOT took to build massive interchanges at Larrabee Road and I-95 (highlighted in yellow below).

The Arterial right-of-way is also absurdly wasteful – it's about 300 feet wide, so it gobbles up almost 40 acres of land. The roadway itself is about 120' feet wide from one edge of the pavement to the other and 1/3rd of that is the grass median.

It's not hard to imagine a scenario where the Arterial got narrowed to be a more typical city street, in which case there would be enough land available for dozens of new multi-story buildings on the land that the DOT owns.