Portland Renderings

Not Portland, but on the outskirts of the metro area, Kennebunk Main Street (I was there last weekend, looks great):

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East Point Marina site in Wiscassett, which I think is stalled at the moment:
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New UNE dorms in Biddeford (nearly completed):
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South Portland's concept for a new High School (looks dense):
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Artist's rendering of the proposed intown station.

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Personally, I don't think a station like this warrants the money and time needed to build it. It might as well remain where it is unless it comes to the actual downtown. This site from the looks of it will be nothing more than a redundant suburban model of what already exists a mile to the west. The idea of having an intown station, in my mind, is to get people to be able to walk to the train, but you can notice the large parking structure surrounded by surface spaces shown in this rendering. So not only is the site not ideally located in terms of the unpleasant walk to Old Port and Congress street attractions, it also still seems to revolve around a suburban business model. This will not benefit downtown, and will be a detriment to existing train riders by making them have to travel to a new destination. I'd like to see a platform on Center Street/Commercial Street with very few if any parking spaces (because that's what the Thompson's point site offers already). Thoughts?
 
I agree. This is very disappointing. What is the point of having a station on the peninsula if it is as car oriented and isolated as the existing station.
 
I definitely prefer the waterside of Commercial @ Center Street but will take this location over the present site. The parcel of land at the the Portland Fish Pier/Marine Trade Center is also city owned property which makes a lot of sense financially.
 
I'm not too well informed on this, but I thought the proposed intown site was near Center and Commercial? I can see the obvious difficult in getting a commuter or Amtrak train through the area between the bridge and Center Street, especially if the Portland North project becomes a commuter rail that uses the same station, which seems like a good idea in my mind. Still, it seems like it would be worth pursuing pushing the station further intown there. Is the idea that the Thompson's Point station will be retained and this will be an addition station, or will this replace Thompson's Point? If this is not a replacement, there is certainly no need for much parking here.

If the site by the bridge has to be used or is to be chosen over Center/Commercial, however, a few changes would result in huge improvements. At least until the area around the bridge is redeveloped, it will not be a pleasant walk, and fewer people will choose to hop on and off the train and walk to the Old Port. Still, replacing the parking lot with buildings, and even perhaps a parking lot, would be huge. It would also be a good move in terms of generating income through leases. An urban-scaled building with a strong street presence, perhaps with the station and some retail on the ground floor and offices or a hotel above would be good, and might encourage similar development on adjacent parcels. In addition to this, running frequent city buses and coordinating them with the train schedule would be crucial. If the waterfront streetcar proposed in the Peninsula Transit Study is built, it would provide a good link to a station at this location, too.

If a station is built on this site as proposed, it will be only a very marginal improvement over Thompson's Point. If a better, more urban station integrated into a robust municipal transit system is built here, it will be a huge improvement even if Center/Commercial would be the best location.
 
Mike, perfect summary. I couldn't have said things better. You are absolutely right. The center street area would be for Portland North, commuter, and this site would be for Amtrak. The idea as I discussed it with a city councilor the first time it was mentioned a few years ago was to create a platform to drop off downtown, in addition to Thompson's point, not to replace thompson's point. A platform to me means something like a subway station, not a giant surface parking lot and oddly placed building. I think your thoughts, again, are absolutely correct, and thank you for sharing your insight. Wish someone who thinks like you were in charge up here.
 
Portland needs to send a few folks down to Providence to learn the right way to build a new downtown Amtrak station.
 
Hmm...Providence was sort of aided by the fact that the Northeast corridor mainline passes directly downtown. Also, the area around Providence's station wasn't built up until the city launched its revitalization effort very recently. Downtown came up to meet the station, rather than vice versa.
 
Ron Newman said:
Portland needs to send a few folks down to Providence to learn the right way to build a new downtown Amtrak station.
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I don't know why, but it seems a lot of planning in Portland could be improved by common sense. How old is the Providence station?
 
czsz said:
Hmm...Providence was sort of aided by the fact that the Northeast corridor mainline passes directly downtown. Also, the area around Providence's station wasn't built up until the city launched its revitalization effort very recently. Downtown came up to meet the station, rather than vice versa.
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Interesting. How does the station look? Portland's, as you can see from the rendering, is planned in a very suburban way. It almost makes me wonder why bother building this in town if it will be surrounded by a hideous parking garage and not near any sidewalks or any amenities whatsoever. Someone would get off the train and have to talk by a lot of blight to get to Portland center.
 
Providence has done major re-engineering of the city, moving railroad tracks, rivers, and highways. The tracks were moved a few blocks away from the center of town, requiring a new station that opened in 1986. Despite its more remote location, it's still an inviting gateway into the city, and it's quite obvious how to walk from it to downtown Providence.
 
How does the station look?
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Not so great:

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I can't believe it was built in 1986! I would have assumed 60s.

Anyway, the point remains that the tracks in Providence are very close to the center, but also that the city had to come out to meet the station, which still felt somewhat removed from downtown when first built (most of the urban development around it is brand new, and there are still lots waiting to be filled in).
 
czsz said:
Not so great:

Providence_train_station.JPG


I can't believe it was built in 1986! I would have assumed 60s.

Anyway, the point remains that the tracks in Providence are very close to the center, but also that the city had to come out to meet the station, which still felt somewhat removed from downtown when first built (most of the urban development around it is brand new, and there are still lots waiting to be filled in).
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wow, not so great at all. When you say it was built in 1986, but the urban development in the area is brand new, to me it seems like that indicates such development was coincidental to the station, rather than caused by it. Thoughts? I am worried that if the station itself didn't cause development (as it would have a hundred years ago), then Portland's might just be some suburban station for a while.
 
The biggest piece of nearby urban development, Providence Place, opened in 1999. So not that brand new.
 
"Not that great at all" doesn't begin to describe how awful Providence's train station is. It's crumbling. The ProJo had an article on it a while back. Architecturally, it's a shit hole. However, it is not "suburban." The rails are underground and dense urban development was not only encouraged, but promoted. It is an easy walk downtown and that's where Portland could learn.

As far as the station causing all of that growth, I don't know. Providence's train station may not have had all the development around it in 1986, but it was still sandwiched right in between downtown (an easy walk) and the State House (not to mention it's on the riverfront too). That area was naturally suited for downtown-like development with or without a train station.

Still, the Jewelery District was on the other side of downtown and was much more built up to begin with. Logically, it looks like an area that would redevelop first given the existing density. The station may be one of the primary reasons most of the development took place where it is now vs. the Jewelery District. The Jewelery District is only now seeing some serious redevelopment (coincidentally at the same time I-195 is being removed from that section of town) while the area around the station has seen the Mall, Blue Cross/Blue Shield, Waterplace, G-Tech, The building where the Big East headquarters are, and a number of other mid-scale developments. The location of the Big East conference is no coincidence. I think the rail connection to bigger markets (namely New York) is obviously a big factor in locating where they did in downtown Providence.

A Portland station near the Casco Bay Bridge wouldn't be the end of the world if it was done properly. That area along Commercial Street (between the bridge and Cross Street) is sort of a no-mans land that could really use a shot in the arm. I think the area will eventually fill in given the central location, proximity to the Old Port, and waterfront access. However, a well-done station there could centralize development in that area and help build up that section of town in the same way that Providence's station sped up the progress in its vicinity. Still, a station near Center St. would probably be more beneficial overall as I'm sure most people in Providence would have felt about a station at Kennedy Plaza.
 
I did not know about the crumbling garage! Did they fix it, or close it?
 
Lrfox said:
"Not that great at all" doesn't begin to describe how awful Providence's train station is. It's crumbling. The ProJo had an article on it a while back. Architecturally, it's a shit hole. However, it is not "suburban." The rails are underground and dense urban development was not only encouraged, but promoted. It is an easy walk downtown and that's where Portland could learn.

As far as the station causing all of that growth, I don't know. Providence's train station may not have had all the development around it in 1986, but it was still sandwiched right in between downtown (an easy walk) and the State House (not to mention it's on the riverfront too). That area was naturally suited for downtown-like development with or without a train station.

Still, the Jewelery District was on the other side of downtown and was much more built up to begin with. Logically, it looks like an area that would redevelop first given the existing density. The station may be one of the primary reasons most of the development took place where it is now vs. the Jewelery District. The Jewelery District is only now seeing some serious redevelopment (coincidentally at the same time I-195 is being removed from that section of town) while the area around the station has seen the Mall, Blue Cross/Blue Shield, Waterplace, G-Tech, The building where the Big East headquarters are, and a number of other mid-scale developments. The location of the Big East conference is no coincidence. I think the rail connection to bigger markets (namely New York) is obviously a big factor in locating where they did in downtown Providence.

A Portland station near the Casco Bay Bridge wouldn't be the end of the world if it was done properly. That area along Commercial Street (between the bridge and Cross Street) is sort of a no-mans land that could really use a shot in the arm. I think the area will eventually fill in given the central location, proximity to the Old Port, and waterfront access. However, a well-done station there could centralize development in that area and help build up that section of town in the same way that Providence's station sped up the progress in its vicinity. Still, a station near Center St. would probably be more beneficial overall as I'm sure most people in Providence would have felt about a station at Kennedy Plaza.
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I meant Portland's might be suburban. I think no man's land is accurate, and that is why I can't understand the benefit of locating the station where it is proposed. What difference would it make if it is there versus where it is now? It might be closer to downtown, but it might as well be in South Portland, because if you can't walk to shops and galleries, no one is more likely to use that station over the existing one. Development in that area might happen, but is very unlikely. There have been proposals in the past, but Portland is so picky about its waterfront. Yet they will probably endorse a parking garage like the one shown above. Really? A parking garage? On the water? Someone missed the memo that that is an outdated planning approach. Seriously confused as to why that would even be contemplated. The ideas involved in TOD are so elemental that it amazes me there is so much debate about stations like this.
 
^I understand where you're coming from. A suburban style proposal does no good and a more centralized location would be better. No question about it.

However, I think that if they went with a more urban style proposal in that location and some infrastructure upgrades along Commercial St (better sidewalks, etc), it could still be very beneficial in the long run. From the site of that station to the Western section of the Old Port it's about 1/2 mile walk. Not so bad. Same with the distance from the proposed site to the CCCC- about 1/2 mile. That's less than or equal to the same distance from Providence's station to most of downtown Providence (Kennedy Plaza, Westminster, Weybossett, City hall, etc). With some improvements in the sidewalks on some of the surrounding streets, it's perfectly reasonable for people to walk from the proposed station to the existing downtown area (particularly, the Old Port).

What's more is that it could help to turn that section of Commercial into the gateway that it should be. A streetcar proposal (something that I know has been discussed) would gain more support if you had the station over near the Casco Bay Bridge. Tourist traffic from trains would encourage more retail along that section of Commercial between the bridge and the Old Port too.

I'm sure the city has been tough on proposals for those sites, but part of the reason they don't get built is because it's not worth it for the developer to put up a fight. If you put train loads of tourists and commuters on Commercial Street, the developers would be more likely to play along with the city and get stuff done.

I guess my point is that a station at that location is still better than what currently exists (better than something in South Portland too). It may not be the best solution, but the best solution might not be feasible at all. But you're right. A platform next to a garage and parking lots is no real improvement. If they want to make that area a gateway, they need to start with a real station.
 
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