Proposed watertown ferry

[as02143]

they are team owner subsidies

I don't know why we don't tax the rich -- Messrs Kraft and Henry in particular -- for the impacts to the public transit network for their franchises. Like, Mr Henry should probably pay for about 50% of the cost of running the GL.

 

[TheRatmeister]

There won't be nearly the thousands and thousands of residential units built in Franklin Park around White Stadium

Well no, because they already exist. It's in Roxbury, it's hardly a ghost town. We don't expect Fenway Park to be surrounded by new housing and a year-round entertainment zone. It's busy on game days, and not most of the year, and that's fine because that's what it's designed to do. Not every stadium needs to be the anchor of a massive entertainment district with hundreds of units of luxury housing.

 

[ritchiew]

Here is what is certain. The $50 million taxpayer cost for White Stadium in Franklin park will not net nearly as big a reward.

I've lost whatever point you're getting at in this thread.

But the $50 million for White Stadium has nothing to do with redevelopment potential or building a new "Entertainment Zone." Boston is fixing up part of a city owned park, that is and will be open to the public. This is mainly to provide athletic facilities for kids in Boston Public Schools (which owns the stadium). You could make some argument that this is something that makes it more attractive for families to stay in Boston and send their kids to BPS, which is good for the city tax base in the long term. It's also just a good thing cities normally provide for schoolchildren. And the $50 million isn't even the full cost of revamping the publicly owned stadium. The NWSL team is kicking in money in exchange for using the stadium 20 days per year. So the city is getting its public project done partially with private money.

The White Stadium and Everett Stadium are really completely different projects with completely different goals and stakeholders. Comparisons between them don't make a lot of sense. They can both be good and co-exist just fine.

 

[737900er]

Ferries do not support massive development. They are slow and capacity limited. Ferries, at best, provide a miniscule capacity boost.

Heavy Rail supports massive development. That is what the Everett Corridor really needs for the proposed level of development. We are just too cheap to provide it. Everything else being propose is a band aid when a tourniquet is needed.

One Red Line trainset can carry more passengers than all the Hull ferries deployed in a day.

We should be building it now while the whole thing is being torn up and no one lives there. Unfortunately the Encore is built in such a way that it obstructs any good alignment to Sullivan.

 

[shmessy]

Ferries do not support massive development. They are slow and capacity limited. Ferries, at best, provide a miniscule capacity boost.

Heavy Rail supports massive development. That is what the Everett Corridor really needs for the proposed level of development. We are just too cheap to provide it. Everything else being propose is a band aid when a tourniquet is needed.

One Red Line trainset can carry more passengers than all the Hull ferries deployed in a day.

+1. Amen.

What confused me is why you then posted "Understood -- just pointing out that the current large business in the area has already demonstrated the viability of ferry service from downtown/seaport to the location.
It was also privately financed to get patrons to their venue (looking at you Bob Kraft)!"

The 'current large business in the area' = Encore. You described that ferry service as viable (and it is TINY).

Wouldn't large ferries to a much larger district also be "viable" (and more meaningful)? No one is saying it would be the entire solution - - but 10-15% of the total would be a benefit to all.

And Kraft isn't the holdup. He's already proposed paying$100 million that the state would normally be on the hook for for the cleanup. Why people think HE is the holdup, instead of the NIMBY's who somehow think White Stadium in Franklin Park will be an international draw and want the TAXPAYERS to pay $50 million for it, is mindblowing.

 

[JeffDowntown]

+1. Amen.

What confused me is why you then posted "Understood -- just pointing out that the current large business in the area has already demonstrated the viability of ferry service from downtown/seaport to the location.
It was also privately financed to get patrons to their venue (looking at you Bob Kraft)!"

The 'current large business in the area' = Encore. You described that ferry service as viable (and it is TINY).

Wouldn't large ferries to a much larger district also be "viable" (and more meaningful)? No one is saying it would be the entire solution - - but 10-15% of the total would be a benefit to all.

And Kraft isn't the holdup. He's already proposed paying$100 million that the state would normally be on the hook for for the cleanup. Why people think HE is the holdup, instead of the NIMBY's who somehow think White Stadium in Franklin Park will be an international draw and want the TAXPAYERS to pay $50 million for it, is mindblowing.

I was thinking "viable" in that a venue operator clearly thinks even the tiny service is worth funding. (Maybe Encore only picks up high rollers in the water taxis?) Encore must think they are getting something out of the service?

A real ferry option could add a bit of capacity for crush periods, but it is just not very much capacity under the best case. (I believe the largest ferries on MBTA routes are 350 passenger BHC vessels. You need a lot of ferry trips to get to 10-15% of stadium capacity, delivered at nearly the same time!)

There are clearly larger passenger ferries out there, but we don't have ferry terminals with transit access that can accommodate them. (The ferry has to have someplace to connect to that makes sense.)

 

[thepixelnation]

Well no, because they already exist. It's in Roxbury, it's hardly a ghost town. We don't expect Fenway Park to be surrounded by new housing and a year-round entertainment zone. It's busy on game days, and not most of the year, and that's fine because that's what it's designed to do. Not every stadium needs to be the anchor of a massive entertainment district with hundreds of units of luxury housing.

isn't Fenway currently surrounded by new housing and a year-round entertainment zone?

 

[ceo]

The reason the Encore ferries are so small is they have to fit under the Alford St bridge, so they don't have to raise it for every ferry run. A ferry to the stadium would presumably dock on the east side of the bridge and could be a lot larger. (Not taking a position here on how useful such a thing would be.)

 

[HenryAlan]

The $50 million taxpayer cost for White Stadium in Franklin park will not net nearly as big a reward.

Maybe if you are only able to see spending through an investor's lens, but arguably it will get BPS students a world class athletic facility for half the cost. That pretty much defines a big reward to most of us.

 

[shmessy]

Maybe if you are only able to see spending through an investor's lens, but arguably it will get BPS students a world class athletic facility for half the cost. That pretty much defines a big reward to most of us.

Is that so?

Plan for professional soccer at White Stadium sharply reduces access for Boston high school football - The Boston Globe

City officials say football will be prohibited at the stadium during the professional soccer season, which in 2024 is scheduled to run from March 16 until Nov. 3.

www.bostonglobe.com

".....City officials say football will be prohibited at the stadium during the professional soccer season, which in 2024 is scheduled to run from March 16 until Nov. 3, followed by playoffs at the home fields of higher seeds through Nov. 17, and a championship game at a neutral site on Nov. 23.
Most high school games have already been played by November......"

But maybe they can turn it into a skating rink for the open December - March time periods.

 

[HenryAlan]

You are an expert at selective reading. The article says quite a bit more than what you chose to present, including the fact that it will represent significant upgrades for soccer, track and field, gym and locker facilities. But do go on with your unpersuasive ranting.

 

[samsongam]

Let's not forget the "spaces for BPS strength and conditioning training, sports medicine facilities for student-athletes, student lounge space, and community space... The renovation will also allow BPS to take full advantage of the field, which will be able to support programming of 750-900 hours per year." Not to mention the proposed hundreds of thousands of dollars in annual funds for park maintenance, student scholarships, and amenities that this $50 million unlocks from the private investor.

Football loses some time on the field but they gain access to a bunch of new off-field facilities and they have alternatives like Clemente FIeld (which is closer to Latin) which are in better condition than White Stadium right now. Every other BPS sport benefits from a comprehensive world-class facility for a greatly discounted price. It cost 30 million just to replace the Clougherty Pool and is not nearly as wide-reaching and beneficial as this project.