Quincy Market Update/Renovation | Faneuil Hall Marketplace | Downtown

[itchy]

I am all for as many locally owned businesses as possible here but why the requirement that 60% of businesses also be women or minority owned? That number seems extremely high to me and could serve to limit the development here assuming anything happens. Was 1/3 women/minority owed not enough that they needed to nearly double that requirement?

Not to mention that discrimination is discrimination is discrimination. It begets more discrimination.

Is it really a relevant point to say that if in 1980 when the US was 90%+ white, 90%+ of contractors were white? It's like saying >90% of construction workers in Kenya today are black, so it's 'equitable' to demand 90% going forward be white.

 

[kdmc]

@HenryAlan 's stat was that 90% of the contracts went to white males. The US population in 1980 was not 90% white males (It wasn't 90% white either, only 80%, but that's beside the point.)

My point was that the 60% threshold sounds way too high until you realize that it's inclusive of minorities and women, at which point it's worth pointing out that for the US's entire existence, more than half of people have fallen into the category "minorities and women".

We could debate whether or not affirmitive action is morally right (though that debate has been done a million times elsewhere), but regardless, let's not mix up the statistics.

 

[Aprehensive_Words]

IIRC the Wu administration talked about how the need to diversify the vendors wasn't (just) progressive box-checking or an economic development tool, but that it would also be part of making the marketplace reflect Boston and Bostonians, vs. today's mall that feels a bit closer to a Walmart version of Boston -- that is, the marketplace would (in their view) actually be a fundamentally better and more attractive retail experience.

 

[beck4537]

For potential updates, they should really look at modeling what Reading Terminal Market or Pikes Place has done. Out of all of the Quincy Market type locations I've been to across the country, these two stand out due to the diversity in food options, overall ambiance and connection with the local food scene.

 

[shmessy]

IIRC the Wu administration talked about how the need to diversify the vendors wasn't (just) progressive box-checking or an economic development tool, but that it would also be part of making the marketplace reflect Boston and Bostonians, vs. today's mall that feels a bit closer to a Walmart version of Boston -- that is, the marketplace would (in their view) actually be a fundamentally better and more attractive retail experience.

The should start by kicking Chipotle out of the Old Corner Bookstore building.

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.com

 

[BosDevelop]

For potential updates, they should really look at modeling what Reading Terminal Market or Pikes Place has done. Out of all of the Quincy Market type locations I've been to across the country, these two stand out due to the diversity in food options, overall ambiance and connection with the local food scene.

Do either of these places require that a certain percentage of their vendors be women or minorities? I doubt it. And if they do, no way it is anything approaching a 60% requirement. I've never heard of a requirement that high for anything similar.

 

[kdmc]

Do either of these places require that a certain percentage of their vendors be women or minorities? I doubt it. And if they do, no way it is anything approaching a 60% requirement. I've never heard of a requirement that high for anything similar.

Here the Pike's Place Market Master Plan: https://www.pikeplacemarket.org/wp-...n_Draft-for-Approval_3.26.2024-compressed.pdf

No specific threshold, but it repeatedly states that DEI is an explicit goal when choosing vendors. It also mentions that the 2023 Guest Vendor Program, their sort of incubator/pop-up part of the market, had 80% women and people of color.

 

[basedgod]

Maybe there are requirements for having women and minority owners because they want the food to actually be good.

 

[commuter guy]

I am all for as many locally owned businesses as possible here but why the requirement that 60% of businesses also be women or minority owned? That number seems extremely high to me and could serve to limit the development here assuming anything happens. Was 1/3 women/minority owed not enough that they needed to nearly double that requirement?

Although the goals may be well intentioned, I can't image this requirement surviving equal protection/civil right legal challenges. By way of example, toward the end of the pandemic in 2021/22 there was a federal restaurant relief program for restaurants. Priority for grants was to be given to restaurants owned by women, people of color etc. during the first period of the disbursements. After the first period of disbursements ended, then program was then to be opened to all restaurant owners regardless of race/sex. The problem is that the program disbursed all the grants in the first disbursement period and white owned restaurants were not able to receive grants. Those restaurant owners sued and the courts struck down the program. It ended up being a hardship for many women and minority owned businesses because after they received notification that they would be receiving grants, they made equipment purchases etc on reliance of the forthcoming grants. After the program was struck down the grants never came for many of those businesses.

 

[BosDevelop]

Maybe there are requirements for having women and minority owners because they want the food to actually be good.

With some notable exceptions, most restaurant owners do not cook the food themselves. I bet that is even more so the case for restaurants downtown in areas like Quincy Market. So, requiring a restaurant be owned by a women or minority in no way ensures your food will be cooked by a women or minority.

 

[W-4]

Maybe there are requirements for having women and minority owners because they belong in the kitchen.

 

[basedgod]

With some notable exceptions, most restaurant owners do not cook the food themselves. I bet that is even more so the case for restaurants downtown in areas like Quincy Market. So, requiring a restaurant be owned by a women or minority in no way ensures your food will be cooked by a women or minority.

It's a joke about how having the same white men owners propagates blandness.

 

[DBM]

The should start by kicking Chipotle out of the Old Corner Bookstore building.

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.com

As garish and tacky as that use/tenant may be, given the context, without Chipotle and its lucrative lease, HBI is severely if not fatally crippled.

Like their work on the Uphams Corner comfort station? Thank Chipotle. How about what they did restoring the Alvah Kittredge home? Again, courtesy of Chipotle. Maybe you prefer their restoration of the Hayden Building? Yup, propelled by Chipotle...

https://historicboston.org/our-work/

Now, you may counter, "I have no problem with HBI using its OCB retail tenants to pay for all of that restoration work--can't it just be anyone other than Chipotle?" To which I'd point out--look at the surrounding neighborhood.

Fast-casual is what succeeds in DTX. What would you propose as an alternative to Chipotle, that would reliably pay a good market-rate rent over a long period? HBI doesn't have the luxury to dabble in experimental start-up retail, I imagine. If you can't answer that question, then complaining about Chipotle really smacks of sneering...

 

[shmessy]

As garish and tacky as that use/tenant may be, given the context, without Chipotle and its lucrative lease, HBI is severely if not fatally crippled.

Like their work on the Uphams Corner comfort station? Thank Chipotle. How about what they did restoring the Alvah Kittredge home? Again, courtesy of Chipotle. Maybe you prefer their restoration of the Hayden Building? Yup, propelled by Chipotle...

https://historicboston.org/our-work/

Now, you may counter, "I have no problem with HBI using its OCB retail tenants to pay for all of that restoration work--can't it just be anyone other than Chipotle?" To which I'd point out--look at the surrounding neighborhood.

Fast-casual is what succeeds in DTX. What would you propose as an alternative to Chipotle, that would reliably pay a good market-rate rent over a long period? HBI doesn't have the luxury to dabble in experimental start-up retail, I imagine. If you can't answer that question, then complaining about Chipotle really smacks of sneering...

Yup, proudly guilty of sneering about that historic building being a Chipotle now. You'll get zero arguments from me. I am not going to wave pom poms about it. Sorry.

I fully understand the economics and that Chipotle "pays the bills" for what the owner wants. Doesn't mean I have to swallow it and like it.

I'd be willing to bet that Beacon Hill Bookstore and Cafe makes a pretty good living over there on Charles Street and this location would be an economically viable choice for their second if they ever wanted to expand (which they may not). Given the "surrounding neighborhood" actually being very heavy tourist foot traffic (and given the recent sea change beginning of lowering of interest rates/new potential for residential retrofits and new residential possibilities - to augment the Millenium up the street and others) the "surrounding neighborhood' may actually not stay preserved in ice for decades to come. In fact, there used to be a 6x6 block area up the street called "The Combat Zone" which today has shrunk to less than 1.5 blocks. Things change.

I'm sure a McDonalds would absolutely kill it the middle of the Quincy Market rotunda for your very same reasons (which is what the original subject was about). I'm not for it. Vive la difference.