Reasonable Transit Pitches

[BostonUrbEx]

Reasonable Pitch: opening the Blue Line one hour earlier than the other lines, especially during the Government Center shutdown.

 

[Arlington]

Reasonable Pitch: opening the Blue Line one hour earlier than the other lines, especially during the Government Center shutdown.

Or even just a half hour to roughly correspond with the time the bad/lacking/bus connection imposes. Completely reasonable. Cutting it to a half hour might also make extending the green the same half hour reasonable.

 

[cozzyd]

Kendall is getting increasingly crowded, and more and more is being built up. How about an infill Tech Square stop? It would allow a transfer to a potential stop on the GJ as well.

 

[BostonUrbEx]

Kendall is getting increasingly crowded, and more and more is being built up. How about an infill Tech Square stop? It would allow a transfer to a potential stop on the GJ as well.

Too close together, methinks. A compromise might be better: move Kendall to in between its current location and the midpoint between Kendall and Central. So, move it 25% closer to Central. This could still make it GJ accessible, and it would shift the walkshed further away from the Charles River (dead space). And make sure it is built so that the platform can handle twice the flow it currently does.

 

[fattony]

Too close together, methinks. A compromise might be better: move Kendall to in between its current location and the midpoint between Kendall and Central. So, move it 25% closer to Central. This could still make it GJ accessible, and it would shift the walkshed further away from the Charles River (dead space). And make sure it is built so that the platform can handle twice the flow it currently does.

I think this is a good suggestion and would be a major improvement, but Cozzyd makes a good case. Kendall and increasingly Eastern Central Square form a major employment center, a major housing center, and are slated to grow substantially on both fronts. Downtown stops generally are closer than outlying stops because the density is much higher . Extending downtown-style stop spacing into the densest commercial district of Cambridge while adding an express/DMU connection could be a boon. Check the entry/exit counts on Kendall and Central. They are 2 of the highest on the system that are only served by a single line. True that Kendall's walkshed is largely wasted, but it includes most of the biggest name companies and premium waterfront real estate. Weakening their transit connection seems undesirable.

 

[JeffDowntown]

I think this is a good suggestion and would be a major improvement, but Cozzyd makes a good case. Kendall and increasingly Eastern Central Square form a major employment center, a major housing center, and are slated to grow substantially on both fronts. Downtown stops generally are closer than outlying stops because the density is much higher . Extending downtown-style stop spacing into the densest commercial district of Cambridge while adding an express/DMU connection could be a boon. Check the entry/exit counts on Kendall and Central. They are 2 of the highest on the system that are only served by a single line. True that Kendall's walkshed is largely wasted, but it includes most of the biggest name companies and premium waterfront real estate. Weakening their transit connection seems undesirable.

I think that the housing and employment is going to be dense enough to justify an in-fill station. Eastern Cambridge up to Central Square is becoming another "downtown" in terms of density.

 

[Arlington]

I think that the housing and employment is going to be dense enough to justify an in-fill station. Eastern Cambridge up to Central Square is becoming another "downtown" in terms of density.

I don't see how you can justify CBD spacing--and a whole new stop-- until you've maxed out Central Square to CBD density (or have some kind of Tax Increment Financing deal in hand that says that it and "the new stop" will, so as to pay back the costs of an infill)

Boston's CBD probably averages more than 10 stories tall (if for every 5 story building there's a 20, you'd average 12ish).

Central Square? Still waaay too many 1-and-2 story buildings, and too many buildings with empty upper floors. And too much surface parking. IF you had a deal that said all the parking would get built out, and all the 2-story buildings fronting Mass Ave between City Hall and Quest DIagnotics (@ Main) then (and only then) might the MBTA and Cambridge go 50/50 in paying for an infill.

If there's really untapped ridership and development potential, we should be seeing more activity in central square, and we aren't.

 

[paperless paul]

I think this is a good suggestion and would be a major improvement, but Cozzyd makes a good case. Kendall and increasingly Eastern Central Square form a major employment center, a major housing center, and are slated to grow substantially on both fronts.

Kendall / East Cambridge is a really tricky one. It has always been too big to effectively serve with one stop. Why address it now? What's changed?
- Development and greater activation are or soon will fill out a much greater area as others have described above. There will soon be 2 public transit stops in the neighborhood and potentially the Urban Ring / GJ stop (obviously a much much later date if ever).

Why not a set of circulator buses tying together Kendall Square Redline and Lechmere Greenline. Similar in execution to the DC Circulator.

I am not convinced an infill stop is worth it. The time penalty where Central/Kendall/MGH gets up to decent speed and the cost of a brand new underground station in the heart of Camrbdige / Mass Ave (i.e. cost, construction issues & mitigation) seems costly. Hopefully one of the ideas to connect GJ stop to Kendall will work and is a bit premature anyway.

I propose a few short bus routes performing overlapping loops. The routes should be simple to understand and direct. The goal should not be a stop in front of every major building. The goal should be to use less trafficked roads or ones which have faster travel or priority (sort of like a bike boulevard for busses). The goal should be to keep down the number of difficult turns and intersections. It should have a modern POP system and be MBTA fare-integrated, as this will largely be a subway transfer service. Perhaps the loops are 10 to 15m so 1 or 2 buses are all that is needed for circulation. As a general starter, here is a map of four possible loops. I am sure others will have better ideas. Perhaps these should try to capture more residential.

I am vaguely aware of EZ Ride. Basically this should be a better thought out public service to replace EZ Ride. Does anyone have a view of its ridership? effectiveness? quality?

In a way this proposal is a criticism or at least the next step from a private service which 'laid the groundwork' before there was sufficient public support. The EZ route is incredibly confusing for anyone who is not a very regular commuter, it doesn't run on night or weekends. I think is incompatible fare wise with T, or is confusing enough to be effectively so. It certainly feels like the intent is to keep the public off of it.

If this idea works perhaps Cambridgeport, Central Sq, Union Sq (Green) should get something similar.

 

[cozzyd]

It's true that the south side of Kendall is largely wasted (since so close to water, and MIT will be going tall on those parking lots), but the other side has tons of development still planned (especially along Binney St). I think the current station should stay, Downtown is not such a good analogy because there are so many different lines there.

I think that it would be wise (and probably within the power of the city) for the public housing west of Portland St. to be gradually converted into high-rises ( a few 20-30 story buildings can soak up all of the low-rises), opening up most of that space for mixed-use purposes.

 

[fattony]

I don't see how you can justify CBD spacing--and a whole new stop-- until you've maxed out Central Square to CBD density (or have some kind of Tax Increment Financing deal in hand that says that it and "the new stop" will, so as to pay back the costs of an infill)

Boston's CBD probably averages more than 10 stories tall (if for every 5 story building there's a 20, you'd average 12ish).

Central Square? Still waaay too many 1-and-2 story buildings, and too many buildings with empty upper floors. And too much surface parking. IF you had a deal that said all the parking would get built out, and all the 2-story buildings fronting Mass Ave between City Hall and Quest DIagnotics (@ Main) then (and only then) might the MBTA and Cambridge go 50/50 in paying for an infill.

If there's really untapped ridership and development potential, we should be seeing more activity in central square, and we aren't.

Just regarding density - you are right that Boston is more dense, and so is the subway network. 4 lines plus SL plus 2 CR huibs make a grid in Downtown with 0.25 miles spacing between over a dozen stations. 2 parallel lines plus CR serve the Back Bay. An Osborn Triamgle infill station would be 0.5 mile spacing on a single line - it is hardly the same level of coverage.

To the rest of your comment, I agree it is not needed today. Maybe 10 years out, if City Hall gets their poop in a group and makes K2C2 the official master plan and the MBTA moves forward with DMUs on the GJ, then the density increase over what is there today will justify the infill. It would be good to study now, before it is needed so that it can be implemented by the time it is needed.

 

[JeffDowntown]

Kendall / East Cambridge is a really tricky one. It has always been too big to effectively serve with one stop. Why address it now? What's changed?
- Development and greater activation are or soon will fill out a much greater area as others have described above. There will soon be 2 public transit stops in the neighborhood and potentially the Urban Ring / GJ stop (obviously a much much later date if ever).

Why not a set of circulator buses tying together Kendall Square Redline and Lechmere Greenline. Similar in execution to the DC Circulator.

I am not convinced an infill stop is worth it. The time penalty where Central/Kendall/MGH gets up to decent speed and the cost of a brand new underground station in the heart of Camrbdige / Mass Ave (i.e. cost, construction issues & mitigation) seems costly. Hopefully one of the ideas to connect GJ stop to Kendall will work and is a bit premature anyway.

I propose a few short bus routes performing overlapping loops. The routes should be simple to understand and direct. The goal should not be a stop in front of every major building. The goal should be to use less trafficked roads or ones which have faster travel or priority (sort of like a bike boulevard for busses). The goal should be to keep down the number of difficult turns and intersections. It should have a modern POP system and be MBTA fare-integrated, as this will largely be a subway transfer service. Perhaps the loops are 10 to 15m so 1 or 2 buses are all that is needed for circulation. As a general starter, here is a map of four possible loops. I am sure others will have better ideas. Perhaps these should try to capture more residential.

I am vaguely aware of EZ Ride. Basically this should be a better thought out public service to replace EZ Ride. Does anyone have a view of its ridership? effectiveness? quality?

In a way this proposal is a criticism or at least the next step from a private service which 'laid the groundwork' before there was sufficient public support. The EZ route is incredibly confusing for anyone who is not a very regular commuter, it doesn't run on night or weekends. I think is incompatible fare wise with T, or is confusing enough to be effectively so. It certainly feels like the intent is to keep the public off of it.

If this idea works perhaps Cambridgeport, Central Sq, Union Sq (Green) should get something similar.

My understanding is that EZ Ride works "OK, not great" for commuters. But the loop is too long and too all encompassing. It has 23 stops from North Station, to Lechmere, to Kendall, to Cambridgeport. It is kind of trying to be all connections for all people.

A group of loop buses, with more focused connections to the T (and including Central Square) might actually work well here.

 

[cozzyd]

Kendall / East Cambridge is a really tricky one. It has always been too big to effectively serve with one stop. Why address it now? What's changed?
- Development and greater activation are or soon will fill out a much greater area as others have described above. There will soon be 2 public transit stops in the neighborhood and potentially the Urban Ring / GJ stop (obviously a much much later date if ever).

Why not a set of circulator buses tying together Kendall Square Redline and Lechmere Greenline. Similar in execution to the DC Circulator.

I am not convinced an infill stop is worth it. The time penalty where Central/Kendall/MGH gets up to decent speed and the cost of a brand new underground station in the heart of Camrbdige / Mass Ave (i.e. cost, construction issues & mitigation) seems costly. Hopefully one of the ideas to connect GJ stop to Kendall will work and is a bit premature anyway.

I propose a few short bus routes performing overlapping loops. The routes should be simple to understand and direct. The goal should not be a stop in front of every major building. The goal should be to use less trafficked roads or ones which have faster travel or priority (sort of like a bike boulevard for busses). The goal should be to keep down the number of difficult turns and intersections. It should have a modern POP system and be MBTA fare-integrated, as this will largely be a subway transfer service. Perhaps the loops are 10 to 15m so 1 or 2 buses are all that is needed for circulation. As a general starter, here is a map of four possible loops. I am sure others will have better ideas. Perhaps these should try to capture more residential.

I am vaguely aware of EZ Ride. Basically this should be a better thought out public service to replace EZ Ride. Does anyone have a view of its ridership? effectiveness? quality?

In a way this proposal is a criticism or at least the next step from a private service which 'laid the groundwork' before there was sufficient public support. The EZ route is incredibly confusing for anyone who is not a very regular commuter, it doesn't run on night or weekends. I think is incompatible fare wise with T, or is confusing enough to be effectively so. It certainly feels like the intent is to keep the public off of it.

If this idea works perhaps Cambridgeport, Central Sq, Union Sq (Green) should get something similar.

EZ-ride gets fair ridership during the peaks (in mid-day, it's just a replacement for the former MIT northwest shuttle), but since it's not free with a T pass and has such circuitous and confusing routing (places where it stop change throughout the day) because it tries to do several different things. Also, traffic gets really bad in the morning and evening.

 

[Matthew]

I think it's pretty crazy to consider blowing up a perfectly good station in Kendall just to move it a few blocks, although I think the points about demand are good. Maybe if we were building the Red Line from scratch...

An infill station isn't a terrible idea but can you imagine the heads exploding all over Cambridge at the thought of digging and blasting the hell out of Mass Ave/Main Street? Never gonna happen...

I like the DC Circulator idea. It's actually useful transit in DC (and Baltimore, too). You know, after coming back from Chicago and SF, I think we could use more buses in general. I was astounded by how many bus routes criss-cross Chicago, frequently, and some of them 24/7. Does help that they have a well-defined grid of streets, though.

edit:
(I should have been clearer. The DC and Baltimore Circulators are not loops. They are a collection of fully fledged, actually useful, two way bus routes that run at high frequency through most of the day.

Loops are bad transit, in most cases.)

 

[cozzyd]

This station wouldn't be that close to Mass Ave, and Main St. doesn't even have that much traffic over there. In fact, I think there would be little consequence to making Main St. bus/taxis/deliveries only from Broadway to Portland (keeping Vassar and Ames as common traffic).

 

[Matthew]

It's not about the traffic, it's about the impacts to the surrounding neighborhood during construction. We're also talking about folks who believe in opposing all development and preserving parking lots as "open space."

 

[F-Line to Dudley]

No infill stops needed. That's a solution in search of a problem. What they need is to pay up for the CBTC resignaling job that gets headways back to what they used to be prior to the botched 1988 resignaling that kneecapped frequencies. And do it so there's room to grow. Increase the fleet size accordingly to support those frequencies, then stop running away screaming from the radial relief builds like Red-Blue and Transitway-Downtown (the former a little more important and immediately doable than the latter) to keep the dire Red overload at Park/DTX/SS from grinding everything to halt back further and further into Cambridge.

No real mystery. It's eat-your-peas type stuff.



Urban Ring in the neighborhood would permanently solve Kendall's congestion, but not moving on that isn't the same clear-and-present danger of paralyzing the whole system in a dozen years like not addressing the Red congestion is.

 

[paperless paul]

I like the DC Circulator idea. It's actually useful transit in DC (and Baltimore, too). You know, after coming back from Chicago and SF, I think we could use more buses in general. I was astounded by how many bus routes criss-cross Chicago, frequently, and some of them 24/7. Does help that they have a well-defined grid of streets, though.

There is an alternate proposal for buses in the Crazy Transit pitches thread here.

 

[cozzyd]

It's not about the traffic, it's about the impacts to the surrounding neighborhood during construction. We're also talking about folks who believe in opposing all development and preserving parking lots as "open space."

In this case, the "neighborhood" is basically all MIT, some tech or pharma on MIT land and some public housing.

Urban Ring in the neighborhood would permanently solve Kendall's congestion, but not moving on that isn't the same clear-and-present danger of paralyzing the whole system in a dozen years like not addressing the Red congestion is.

Since presumably the urban ring would go by the GJ , how would you connect to Kendall (unless it took a detour like the CT2)

 

[F-Line to Dudley]

Since presumably the urban ring would go by the GJ , how would you connect to Kendall (unless it took a detour like the CT2)

You wouldn't. UR was never intended to be a Red Line direct transfer, or in any way feasible to re-route or distort into a direct transfer. Just a neighborhood-serving stop that linearly strings all of the MIT-land corridor together.

Hence, what I meant about Job #1-above-all-else being tackling Red's congestion and the looming terror threat stemming from downtown backing up into Cambridge.

 

[cozzyd]

It seems crazy to me to have the UR without an easy red line connection.