Reasonable Transit Pitches

[DrFreewind]

I think the giant rotary for the rt 60/rt 1 interchange should be a DDI, cut out all that extra distance traveled, and open up land for development or return the land to marsh. would also bring rt 1 down to grade except for the DDI portion and get rid of the old never built 95 expansion

 

[Joel N. Weber II]

Converting the 60/1 interchange to a DDI is probably a fine plan; route 1 from the Tobin to I-95 in Lynnfield would probably also benefit from being rebuilt closer to Interstate highway standards, removing driveways from Route 1 where other roads can provide access, improving on ramp / off ramp geometry, and perhaps reducing the number of on ramps and off ramps.

 

[Riverside]

Somewhere on the board (maybe in the TransitMatters proposal thread?), the conversation turned briefly to what options would open up with an rehabilitated Framingham Secondary (the ROW that runs Framingham-Walpole-Foxboro-Mansfield). Someone suggested a Providence-centered commuter rail service running Framingham-TF Green, an idea I like, though only after a Worcester-Providence service has succeeded.

Rehabbing the full Framingham Secondary (though an idea I like) up to competitive passenger rail standards seems like it might not fall into "Reasonable Transit Pitches," but it did leave me thinking. With a fully rehabbed segment between Walpole and Mansfield (note that the current studies only focus on improving Walpole to Gillette), what other options open up?

Particularly if fares were lowered due to the lengthier journey, is there any viability using this corridor to create supplemental service?

For example: a service that runs down the Midland Corridor (through Fairmount-- maybe local, maybe semi-express, maybe express?), semi-expressing down the Franklin Line (maybe with stops only at Dedham, one of the Norwoods and Walpole? or just running express), turning and heading south through Foxboro and then running some or all of the way to Providence.

This would avoid the chokepoints on the Southeast Corridor, Canton Junction and the future chokepoint at the Canton Viaduct, once tri/quad-tracking extends north of Attleboro. Additionally, since it bypasses the Stoughton Line's territory entirely, it would take advantage of the extra capacity on the Shore Line south of Canton.

I see two obvious downsides.

First, lengthier travel time. The journey to Providence already exceeds 1 hour. I believe TransitMatters has proposed a slightly more compact timetable due to using EMUs, but even under the best circumstances, my back-of-the-napkin estimate would put Boston-Fairmount-Walpole-Providence in the neighborhood of 90+ minutes, competing against 70-minute express service, plus Amtrak's superexpress, which is actually not much more expensive than the T if you get a monthly pass. Offset the lengthier trip with a lower fare and perhaps somewhat more frequent service, and maybe it could competitive, but it'd be tough.

Second, the Fairmount-Franklin Line isn't amazing as a supplemental corridor. It has single track segments (including the bridge at Readville) that heretofore have not been a priority to address. And even if you expressed through all of the stops between Walpole and Readville (which seems neither logistically nor politically feasible), I definitely do not think expressing through the Fairmount Line stops is compatible with the more immediately-feasible goal of Rapid Transit frequencies on that corridor. So that's a half-hour ride before you even get out of Boston.

What I'm left with is that the BOS-PVD via FOX corridor might, someday, be a worst-case relief valve for when the Canton Viaduct chokepoint becomes more pressing. Maybe a couple of short-turns from Attleboro or Mansfield (where there is space to build a platform exclusively for the branch-- so short-turns wouldn't block the main line) could use it, like the Wildcat Branch up north.

(On the other hand, PVD-FOX commuter rail service, treating Gillette as a park-n-ride, with additional TOD-focused stops in Foxboro and Mansfield, is something I've long been a fan of.)

Anyone able to convince me to be more optimistic? Or other ideas about options that open up with a fully rehabbed Walpole-Mansfield link?

 

[tysmith95]

Redesign Comm Ave in Allston/Brighton to make this

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.350...i72UjfeYtRAS_w5_zTpw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

Look more like this

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.351...614&pitch=0&thumbfov=100!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

Those separate local lanes along with the express lanes encourage drivers to speed on the express lanes. There's enough space in that area to put a small and long park after getting rid of two of the local lanes and the mediums between that and the express lanes.

 

[whittle]

Redesign Comm Ave in Allston/Brighton to make this

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.350...i72UjfeYtRAS_w5_zTpw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

Look more like this

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.351...614&pitch=0&thumbfov=100!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

Those separate local lanes along with the express lanes encourage drivers to speed on the express lanes. There's enough space in that area to put a small and long park after getting rid of two of the local lanes and the mediums between that and the express lanes.

North of Kelton you wouldn't be able to eliminate the WB carriage without moving the green line tracks to make enough space for all WB traffic to go on that side of the green line tracks.

Edit: The main problem with Comm Ave is that the wide lanes and the median between each direction of traffic makes cars feel way too comfortable going fast. Currently there is 25' for each direction with a 5' median, making the main road 55' wide. For comparison Memorial Dr is 40' and there are parts of Soldiers Field that is only 50' wide. The latest presentation online for Comm Ave Phase 3/4 (which is from 2015) proposes changing it 23' for each direction and 6' for the median, so not really changing much. They specifically mention keeping the median since it is difficult to light the road from the sides with the green line corridor so close to one side, but if we could potentially take 15' from the road there should be plenty space to make enough of a buffer to put street lights in.

 

[stevebikes]

Those separate local lanes along with the express lanes encourage drivers to speed on the express lanes.

Yes, yes they do:

The driver who admitted to Boston 25 News that he hit and killed a man on Commonweatlh Ave in Boston has been arrested.

Phocian Fitts, 23, was very straight forward in confessing that he did in fact take off from the scene after police said he hit an 80-year-old man in a crosswalk.

Sources told Boston 25 News that police arrested Fitts shortly after 10 p.m. Wednesday night, moments after he admitted to driving away from the scene on an exclusive Boston 25 News report.

The 80-year-old man struck by Fitts' Jeep was transported to a local hospital, but later died from his injuries.

"I was listening to my music and as I was driving I was driving too quick, I was driving too quick to the point where I couldn't really stop and it was a green light," said Fitts. "As the guy was walking, the light was green, I'm driving and pressing the horn, 'beep beep' - it was either I was going to die and crash into a pole when it came down to it."

 

[CSTH]

Quote:
The 80-year-old man struck by Fitts' Jeep was transported to a local hospital, but later died from his injuries.

"I was listening to my music and as I was driving I was driving too quick, I was driving too quick to the point where I couldn't really stop and it was a green light," said Fitts. "As the guy was walking, the light was green, I'm driving and pressing the horn, 'beep beep' - it was either I was going to die and crash into a pole when it came down to it."

:shock:

OMFG.

This is terrifying.

They need to hit this kid with homicide and lock him up.

 

[DominusNovus]

This might be a bit bigger than reasonable, but it doesn’t really seem crazy to me, and I’m not sure it would require any new tracks, so I’m puttig it here. Also, I won’t at all be surprised if someone has studied this in more detail already, posted threads about it, and I just haven’t noticed.

Anyway, the actual pitch:

Run a few commuter rail trains from one or more of the South Shore lines (Greenbush, Plymouth, Middleboro) straight to Back Bay, skipping South Station entirely, and back out to one of the more westerly commuter rail lines (like Worcester). If you take a gander at the map, there is a curve on the tracks that veers away from South Station, around W. Broadway. I don’t onow if everything lines up perfectly, but it is there.

This would do three things right away: Give South Shore commuters that work in Back Bay (like my wife) an easier commute every day - the alternative requires Red-Orange/Green, in addition to any Commuter Rail travel. It would also provide better service opposite rush hour. It would also take some of the pressure off South Station and the Red, Orange, and Green lines. As an added bonus, it would be a sort of ‘NSRL lite’ and demonstrate some of the usefulness of avoiding end terminals.

So, like I suggested at the beginning, this seems so obvious in hindsight, I know somebody must have already suggested it - and F-Line has probably shot it down half a dozen times already. But it sounds great to me. What am I missing?

 

[Riverside]

The idea has crossed my mind before, and it’s the crossing itself (ha, a pun) that causes the problems. Actually, several crossings.

First, crossing the yard from the Old Colony Lines to the Cove Loop disrupts all Old Colony and Fairmount trains in both directions, plus (I believe) any turning Amtrak trains. And it’s not like trains would fly through all those crossovers at high speed, either. So that’s a challenge.

Then there’s the question of where those trains go once they hit the other leg— do they take the SW Corridor, or the B&A? There isn’t any space at Back Bay to short-turn without hogging time/space in the schedule, so you have to through-run.

The problem with taking the SW Corridor is that slots are at at premium. Whom do you bump from getting access to/from South Station?

The problem with taking the B&A is, again, those crossovers. Getting a train from the southernmost track to the northernmost (or second-northernmost track) will likely cause it to block all of the tracks, stallling trains from Worcester, Needham, Franklin, Providence and Stoughton, plus the all-prioritized Amtrak service.

If memory serves, most of this was hashed out with the Track 61 proposal.

The best option I can see is to take a few low-priority trains from the SW Corridor (ie Needham trains) and turn them to head down the Fairmount Line (and vice versa). This would work a bit better with a new station at “Midtown”, somehow grabbing riders from the Red Line. But even then, denying access to South Station is a pretty big cost.

More likely, in my humble opinion, is constructing full-length high platforms at Back Bay on the B&A, electrifying that line out to Riverside, and running frequent EMU shuttles (if not to Riverside, at least out to Boston Landing) to make it convenient to travel from South Station to Back Bay.

 

[DominusNovus]

Hmmm...

Which of the commuter rail lines are double tracked?

 

[whittle]

More likely, in my humble opinion, is constructing full-length high platforms at Back Bay on the B&A, electrifying that line out to Riverside, and running frequent EMU shuttles (if not to Riverside, at least out to Boston Landing) to make it convenient to travel from South Station to Back Bay.

I think the key is to have more trains from SS going towards BBY regardless of where they go beyond. When it comes to a short trip like this how long it takes is basically irrelevant compared how frequently the trains run. And you're only going to get EMU towards Riverside if we can have more capacity at SS (whether that be by NSRL, SSX, or reducing the time each train spends at SS) and in any scenario where we have more capacity at SS, we're going to wind up with more trains going between Back Bay and South Station.

Hmmm...

Which of the commuter rail lines are double tracked?

I think Providence (but not Stoughton), Fairmont, and Lowell are fully double tracked; Worcester is almost entirely double tracked; and Fitchburg and Rockport (but not Newburyport) are mostly double tracked.

 

[Joel N. Weber II]

Then there’s the question of where those trains go once they hit the other leg— do they take the SW Corridor, or the B&A? There isn’t any space at Back Bay to short-turn without hogging time/space in the schedule, so you have to through-run.

The problem with taking the SW Corridor is that slots are at at premium. Whom do you bump from getting access to/from South Station?

The problem with taking the B&A is, again, those crossovers. Getting a train from the southernmost track to the northernmost (or second-northernmost track) will likely cause it to block all of the tracks, stallling trains from Worcester, Needham, Franklin, Providence and Stoughton, plus the all-prioritized Amtrak service.

It might be possible to construct the NSRL in such a way that all of the commuter and Amtrak trains on the NEC side of Back Bay Station could duck under Fairmount / Old Colony trains heading to the Worcester side of Back Bay Station to grade separate this conflict.

The other problem with Fairmount / Old Colony to Ruggles would be that U turn trains probably don't tend to be very time competitive to attract riders to stay on the train for their full length. Old Colony to Newton at least is only an L, which is still not a straight line, but if there are enough jobs at Back Bay, West Station, etc, should have decent ridership potential.

 

[tysmith95]

Make the hov on I93 south in Somerville/Charlestown so it's in affect in the afternoon. Make it 24 hours to make it simple.

Traffic regularly backs up in the afternoon and evening rush hour, no reason why that lane isin't a HOV lane at that time.

Another option, which would maybe help the express buses, is to make the hov lane 3+ occupants. They do that in California.

Also a Stoneham express bus would be a good addition.

 

[Arlington]

The Northside I-93 southbound HOV lanes should be extended North to Roosevelt Circle (Fellsway West in Medford), and the hours extended 6AM to 10pm.

I would also like to see an HOV on the Northbound side. Maybe do Virginia-style HOT lanes to pay for it all. (Non HOV pay a variable e-toll to use the road)

 

[cadetcarl]

I'm for all of these. Something has to be done. Also I live near Roosevelt Circle and use an express bus about 50% of the time to get to and from work so these initiatives would help me personally.

I also wonder what the breakdown is of people using 93N to get home. What percentage wouldn't mind a lane that spit them out north of 128 because they're headed for the border region? How many people use it to get off at the Somerville exits when they should be on the Orange line (or GLX)?

 

[tysmith95]

The Northside I-93 southbound HOV lanes should be extended North to Roosevelt Circle (Fellsway West in Medford), and the hours extended 6AM to 10pm.

I would also like to see an HOV on the Northbound side. Maybe do Virginia-style HOT lanes to pay for it all. (Non HOV pay a variable e-toll to use the road)

The hov lane would have to start after the leverett onramp, unless the state is willing to build more lanes. I think I93 south in that area is a greater chokepoint then north though.

 

[tysmith95]

Is it possible to add a Winthrop to Boston ferry? Seems like a no brainier to me.

 

[The EGE]

It already exists!

 

[BostonUrbEx]

Sell off basically all of Reservoir Yard and use the funds towards a Needham Branch with a new, slightly larger carhouse facility at Needham Jct. If any property is kept at Reservoir, it would basically be for laying over and not for maintenance and servicing. Completely rework the whole Cleveland Circle track layout and improve the C and D stations.

 

[F-Line to Dudley]

Sell off basically all of Reservoir Yard and use the funds towards a Needham Branch with a new, slightly larger carhouse facility at Needham Jct. If any property is kept at Reservoir, it would basically be for laying over and not for maintenance and servicing. Completely rework the whole Cleveland Circle track layout and improve the C and D stations.

Can't broker off Reservoir because the B and C wouldn't be able to function without it. Lake St. carhouse is way too small a S&I facility for the B's actual service levels, since it dates from an era when Watertown and BC service load-balanced each other and service was much more diluted going up the hill. The Chestnut Hill Ave. trackage comes alive on every shift change shuttling trains on/off B peak assignments. Since there isn't land at Lake St. to expand that facility, it would be foolhardy to cut down the functionality of Reservoir.

The maint building itself is only 40,000 sq. ft...same size as the DCR ice rink across the street. It's not a big facility, and it's tucked behind the street grid so it's not a high-leverage redev parcel. Nobody's going to be building something the height of the new Cleveland Circle Mariott towering above the rear windows of the brownstones on the Strathmore block. Daytime its functions are pretty square-on focused on keeping the active trains active...no special projects. Nighttime it's the staging area for the overnight work shift since it has closest vehicle access to all lines and the subway.


Future-leaning, Reservoir plays a much bigger role if you start reconfiguring the Green Line. For example, D-to-E connecting trackage between Brookline Village and Riverway is a perennial good idea. But if the Union Sq. Branch (or future extension to Porter) puts some urgency on pumping up peak E service levels, you probably need that connection because Heath and/or Hyde Sq. won't have the storage to feed it on their turnarounds. Reservoir can match wits with Brickbottom carhouse at threading those service increases down Huntington-proper so the weakest-link turnarounds on South Huntington don't need to run over-capacity.

That's a particularly mundane example that could easily come to fruition in the next few years...a Reasonable Transit Pitch case for why Reservoir is a critical hold. But obviously the further afield you go into "Reimagining Green" territory there's a ton of other, grander fodder for maxing out Reservoir's capacity and functioning as a daytime crew/maint base.


I agree the Cleveland Circle track layout could use some revamping. It would be nice if they could wrap things into a C/D union station, but I don't see any plausible layout where that would work given what buildings and driveways are fronting Beacon. I'd settle for a state-of-repair refresh of the Chestnut Hill Ave. trackage with aim on enabling run-thru revenue service to BC from either the C or D sides. That could prove useful if the Packards-Warren reconstruction of Comm Ave. allows for installing a short-turn pocket at Harvard Ave. to throttle the worst of B overcrowding. Sending a few Cleveland Circle or Reservoir trains on to BC would then non-invasively boost the end of the B leaving only the lowest-demand portion of the hill without any surge service.