But what is the transportation need that is solvable with a gondola here? There aren't that many residential units at Marina Bay.
I think that if transit were to go to Marina Bay it has be as the end point of a 203 based radial BRT. North Quincy always frustrates but you couldn't just skip a RL connection and Ashmont seems trickier/Cedar Grove isn't worth it. Commander Shea Blvd can be reserved as busway with almost no disruption up until the intersection with seaport drive, and from the looks of it there's plenty of room to widen the right of way north of that. Pick your own station placement and how you manage the last 500 meters but it's all parking lot and wide right of way, should be an easy fit. The harder part, as F-Line mentions, is securing space on 203. In my experience with local Quincy politics, squantum wants nothing to do with anyone and it isn't worth figuring out the engineering to connect an unwilling, sparsely populate peninsula.
BostonUrbEx
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Not understanding the disconnect here. I think this is a perfect example of where a gondola actually works. Marina Bay has hundreds of units, some retail, restaurants, bars, and room for plenty more units. Everyone at Marina Bay or Squantum has to head south in the opposite direction of Boston to get around the mouth of the Neponset River, including people taking the 211 bus to the Red Line. Gondolas are lost cost and low ops, they're also not that high on throughput, that's why it doesn't work in the Seaport, but it works here where passenger volume won't be exceedingly high anyway. Medium return on low investment. Nothing earth shattering, just a good, simple connection.
DominusNovus
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I’d say it is something Marina Bay should look at as a private entity.
Unrelated, but on the opposite side of Quincy: They need to build a pedestrian bridge over Burgin Pkwy to the station. I know my current concern is temporary (everyone gets off the bus early and crosses, due to construction), but there’s plenty of development in the area.
Waiting to cross at Burgin Parkway has made me miss so many trains. That station is incredibly unfriendly to pedestrian/bike approachment from the west. EDIT: I'm talking about Adams but I realized you're probably talking about QC.
As for the gondola, I don't think the disconnect is with the engineering I think Marina Bay/Squantum dosen't want a Umass connection. The isolation is a feature not a bug to the people living there, especially in Squantum.
DominusNovus
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I’m talking about Adams, too! I should have been clearer. With Crown Colony and the Deco right across Burgin, and the road turning into a bird’s nest of a highway onramp there... its absurd to expect pedestrians to cross that.
F-Line to Dudley
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Pretty much the only time the world outside of hyper-local Quincy hears a peep about Squantum is when they're screaming in opposition to the Long Island Bridge ever being reconnected, but the "GO AWAY!" sentiment runs a lot deeper than that and does permeate all manner of intra-Quincy political scuttlebutt. If they could saw their way off the isthmus and have each resident bring a paddle so they could trade places with Long Island way out in the water...they probably would. As is I'm surprised they don't cover the 211 bus in spit as it passes for the indignity of bringing those sketchy Quincy Center "outsiders" inside their village gates.
It is, but also the reason one won't get built is the same reason there isn't one now. Once the busway is reopened the only people walking to Quincy Adams from that side of the tracks are myself and my frankly small neighborhood. Outside of Deco the closest residence on that side is 1270ft away. The game changer would be redeveloping the massive, abandoned lot (formerly a Lowes) that's directly across from the station (red highlight). Adding a pedestrian bridge as part of a development that's bringing in a ton of units would make sense, except, because of course, that's not happening in the foreseeable future.
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Rezone it for mixed-used and have both. The Big Box era is ending... good luck shooting yourself in the foot by saying "strip mall or bust".
DominusNovus
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There’s plenty of residential there to justify some sort of footbridge, IMO. Something around the ex-Lowe’s would make sense (I hadn’t realized it was that new of a development), and this area is just begging for some pedestrian-friendly TOD.
Councillor Palmucci is pretty responsive when I bug him about stuff. I’ll have to see if he’s got any insight on options. Grocery wouldbe nice, admittedly.
Yeah if there's an intermediate stop on Columbia point you'd probably grab a lot traffic from the redline stop, though it would mostly just replace shuttlebusses. Also put in a Marina Bay park and ride and you'd keep a fair number of commuters from having to hit the neponset river bottlenecks
It would be great if the Home Depot moved in the Lowe’s building, that Home Depot lot was built up with a parking expansion for the garage (it’s much closer to the platform) a rebuilt Home Depot with a resi tower over both. Then Lowe’s area gets rebuilt as a mixed use are with a pedestrian bring connection commercial and more resi.
these are the type of big lot redevelopments I feel like the state should be pushing gateway cities to do around existing transit (especially rapid transit). Financing the projects the cities want to do is important (and there are mechanisms for that), but the state is the only entity that can really address the greater metro issues and should push ($$) places sitting on low hanging fruit to go beyond local NIMBYs. Big investments on existing under developed lots is one of the few things that can be done to ease housing prices and congestion around the region relatively quickly.
these are the type of big lot redevelopments I feel like the state should be pushing gateway cities to do around existing transit (especially rapid transit). Financing the projects the cities want to do is important (and there are mechanisms for that), but the state is the only entity that can really address the greater metro issues and should push ($$) places sitting on low hanging fruit to go beyond local NIMBYs. Big investments on existing under developed lots is one of the few things that can be done to ease housing prices and congestion around the region relatively quickly.
F-Line to Dudley
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Since Victory Rd. exists on both sides of the mouth of the Neponset, did there used to be a drawbridge connecting the separate halves of the road between Commercial Point and Squantum Point? That naming disconnect seems like a significant tell, as the river mouth is only 1500 ft. wide with the Neponset once having many more draw-span crossings in the past than it has total crossings today.
Not that I think there's any need for such a reconnection when it would pretty thoroughly go induced-demand from Day 1 and the Quincy side would be so thoroughly/violently opposed, but it would be only about 35-40% of the span length of the Long Island Bridge with more-than adequate incline space on both shores to do as a fixed span. Nothing that qualifies as a budget-buster by any measure if the need for it rises to critical mass.
EDIT: Historic Aerials doesn't show any sign of a draw span or even a ferry between points dating as far back as 1893. But that doesn't mean there wasn't something prior, as both sides of the Neponset mouth were original 1630 Boston landmass with no subsequent landfilling to speak of except for the last-block squaring-off of the beach to install docks.
Not that I think there's any need for such a reconnection when it would pretty thoroughly go induced-demand from Day 1 and the Quincy side would be so thoroughly/violently opposed, but it would be only about 35-40% of the span length of the Long Island Bridge with more-than adequate incline space on both shores to do as a fixed span. Nothing that qualifies as a budget-buster by any measure if the need for it rises to critical mass.
EDIT: Historic Aerials doesn't show any sign of a draw span or even a ferry between points dating as far back as 1893. But that doesn't mean there wasn't something prior, as both sides of the Neponset mouth were original 1630 Boston landmass with no subsequent landfilling to speak of except for the last-block squaring-off of the beach to install docks.
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The EGE
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Very briefly, yes. It was built in 1917 to provide a more direct streetcar route to the Victory Destroyer Plant. All wooden, except for a drawbridge section. The new line started at Neponset Avenue; South Street was renamed Victory Road. Here's what the bridge looked like in 1919:
BERy served the line until around 1923; you can see it on the 1921 system map.The bridge burned in June 1925, at which time there was an ongoing debate whether or not to retain it. A short segment actually still remains:
BERy served the line until around 1923; you can see it on the 1921 system map.The bridge burned in June 1925, at which time there was an ongoing debate whether or not to retain it. A short segment actually still remains:
DominusNovus
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(might warrant its own thread)
I was listening to an economics podcast recently, and the guest for this particular episode made an interesting point about transit (he was focused on British rail, if I recall correctly). The gist was that we often focus on speed and frequency above all else, when there are many other improvements that are less flashy that could produce considerable returns. The example provided was that ridership and rider satisfaction would increase dramatically if the trains had supermodels (of both sexes) walking up and down, offering free cocktails. Even if the trains were slower and less frequent. That was facetious, of course, but it underscored the point quite nicely, I thought. The more grounded example was improved wifi (which, lets be honest, no matter how good a public wifi system is, its always too slow). I was thinking about this while stuck on the Red Line today, in a train full of people in heavy coats (despite the day being relatively warm) and no AC, leading to a very clammy and uncomfortable train ride.
So, are there any internal improvements that could be made to the trains themselves? Besides better wifi (that should just be a line item on every budget). The Commuter Rail (or Regional Rail if our dreams come true) would seem to be an excellent opportunity for such internal improvements. For example, there could be a business car for commuters that want to work while on the train. I have to imagine a purpose built series of small desks would be more efficient for such purposes than the sort of diner style tables with seats facing them.
I was listening to an economics podcast recently, and the guest for this particular episode made an interesting point about transit (he was focused on British rail, if I recall correctly). The gist was that we often focus on speed and frequency above all else, when there are many other improvements that are less flashy that could produce considerable returns. The example provided was that ridership and rider satisfaction would increase dramatically if the trains had supermodels (of both sexes) walking up and down, offering free cocktails. Even if the trains were slower and less frequent. That was facetious, of course, but it underscored the point quite nicely, I thought. The more grounded example was improved wifi (which, lets be honest, no matter how good a public wifi system is, its always too slow). I was thinking about this while stuck on the Red Line today, in a train full of people in heavy coats (despite the day being relatively warm) and no AC, leading to a very clammy and uncomfortable train ride.
So, are there any internal improvements that could be made to the trains themselves? Besides better wifi (that should just be a line item on every budget). The Commuter Rail (or Regional Rail if our dreams come true) would seem to be an excellent opportunity for such internal improvements. For example, there could be a business car for commuters that want to work while on the train. I have to imagine a purpose built series of small desks would be more efficient for such purposes than the sort of diner style tables with seats facing them.
BostonUrbEx
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Reasonable Pitch #496723: Dedicated E Line reservation extension from Brigham Circle to Perkins St. Ban cars on South Huntington between Perkins and Centre, this will be the terminal station and tail tracks. No loops, no mixed traffic. A clean, signal-prioritized run and change ends.
I like the general thought process here -- take a more holistic view of the service. I think ultimately speed + frequency (i.e. overall journey time and convenience) will supersede everything else, but that doesn't mean you can't make legitimate improvements through this thought process.
A business car/business class on the commuter rail is an interesting idea. As I understand it, in the current realm it wouldn't be feasible due to equipment shortages -- the commuter rail needs all the seats it can get. However, it could be worth exploring -- particularly if it were combined with individually ticketed seats. Especially on the really long commutes, I bet there is some segment of the rider population who would pay a premium to guarantee a seat. (All the more so if you have the option to not have to share a triple with two other people. Charge x for a seat in a double, charge 1.5x for a seat in a triple with a guarantee of a free seat in the middle.)
I don't really like the idea of adding a class system (in both senses of the word) to the commuter rail, but it would be a legitimate revenue opportunity, and I think would be popular with certain customers.
A small task with potentially noticeable comfort impact would be to actually put signage up in the Quiet Cars. Since it is almost always the same car in the set (the car that is furthest away from Downtown Boston), the signage would rarely be incorrect, and would make it easier to enforce. I always feel bad for the people who get shushed -- often (especially if the PA isn't working), there's no way for a new rider to know that this is the QC. That's not fair to them. This problem is relatively easy to solve -- just put up a few stickers in each Quiet Coach.
I have always thought a bar/snack cart on the CR (ala Metro North) would be great and probably make decent money. Guessing the peak crush loads on the CR might not really allow/warrant amenities like this if the line is under capacity/standing room already.
DominusNovus
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I also thought tiered ticketing might make sense, but I figure the logistics might not make it worthwhile.
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The bar carts were a big money loser for MNRR, though. Just like concessions are Amtrak's biggest loss leader (albeit one that's very necessary for their route lengths and a basic cost of doing intercity business). The carts held on as long as they did because of the threatened rioting from riders if the MTA ever got rid of them, and they were only purged when an equipment purchase decision forced their hand. They circulated some PowerPoints about M8 bar car livery and a "we'll see" about converting the very back-back-back end of the order into a few of them for purposes of appeasement, but now the order's not only over but 100 more brand new cars will be delivered next year in a supplemental order with not a single bar car to be seen. They aren't coming back. People have already gotten used to the fact that they aren't coming back.
I think it would be doubly, triply hard here to try to introduce them because no single T commuter line, not even Providence, has the passenger or service density of the New Haven Line. Nor does any other commuter rail line in North America, for that matter. It's OK I guess to have loss-leadery type frills (see: Amtrak) if it's doing something to the total experience, but it just isn't sustainable with the cost bleed it was taking from MNRR. For short-haul CR, the options are definitely fewer because of the whole mentality that the passenger wants to spend the least possible amount of time on the train for their ticket value...which is definitely way different than intercity. Tables and such, sure...that's fair game. Concessions service... almost certainly not, in terms of willingness to pay a sustainable rate for offering the frill.