Red Line Extension to Arlington Heights

Well it was a crazy transit pitch, but also I was thinking 50+ years down the line... even if we started today it would take 15 just to get this thing to approval and construction ready if GLX is any indication... and that was an easier project considering there was no tunneling.

I'll be shocked if Hanscom isn't in more active use by 2075... I'll also probably be dead, so not really my problem.

I'd like a future where high-speed inter-city rail has reduced the need for inter-city flights, so that the current commercial flight airports would be sufficient without having to add capacity.

Absolutely. LGA, EWR, JFK, BWI, DCA, PHL, and IAD account for about 15% of passengers at Logan today.

PVD is far better suited to be a transit-accessible reliever for Logan than Hanscom. Similarly, better interlining between airlines and Amtrak at Newark.
Logan's capacity constraints are worst in the early morning and late night, which would upset neighbors the most and require nearly 24/7 service to actually be useful.
 
@TheRatmeister or @737900er , where are you pulling those numbers from? I'd love to have a look.

Looking at common high speed rail proposals, you could also consider eliminating a few other short flights like to Montreal and upstate New York (Rochester, Syracuse, and Buffalo). With really good trains, you might consider Cleveland, Pittsburg, or Toronto. Just some wishful thinking.
 
@TheRatmeister or @737900er , where are you pulling those numbers from? I'd love to have a look.

Looking at common high speed rail proposals, you could also consider eliminating a few other short flights like to Montreal and upstate New York (Rochester, Syracuse, and Buffalo). With really good trains, you might consider Cleveland, Pittsburg, or Toronto. Just some wishful thinking.
Logan puts out statistics for a bunch of things, including the number of departing flights. It's per month so I did a very crude 'multiply by 7/31' to get a rough number of weekly flights for August. Some quick googling can get you the number of flights per week between BOS and JFK, LGA, EWR, PHL, BWI, DCA, and IAD.
 
@TheRatmeister or @737900er , where are you pulling those numbers from? I'd love to have a look.

Looking at common high speed rail proposals, you could also consider eliminating a few other short flights like to Montreal and upstate New York (Rochester, Syracuse, and Buffalo). With really good trains, you might consider Cleveland, Pittsburg, or Toronto. Just some wishful thinking.
T-100s are the (fairly) authoritative source for non-stop information.

I will try and remember to set up a quick report tonight.
 
Absolutely. LGA, EWR, JFK, BWI, DCA, PHL, and IAD account for about 15% of passengers at Logan today.

PVD is far better suited to be a transit-accessible reliever for Logan than Hanscom. Similarly, better interlining between airlines and Amtrak at Newark.
Logan's capacity constraints are worst in the early morning and late night, which would upset neighbors the most and require nearly 24/7 service to actually be useful.
It would be interesting to see how many of those Logan passengers are Boston originating versus connecting.

To remove the connecting passengers we'd really need to get our high-speed rail terminal out to Logan. Our current connections to South Station are not going to cut it for connecting service.
 
Also, you can't do Hanscom and Burlington Mall without a double back. Either Hartwell Ave on the historic ROW heading towards Bedford as a plus one or Hartwell Ave at the Route 4 Junction heading towards Middlesex ave and the Burlington Mall via the high voltage ROW are the only two 95 options that I see as holding water in a future of reduced flying.
You'd need a shuttle bus any which way. The Minuteman ROW is almost 2 miles up Hartwell from Hanscom's terminal. It's not exactly rail to the airport's doorstep.
 
Elevated rail. There, I said it. Running an elevated line up the Minuteman Trail from the end of the RL tunnel north of Alewife all the way to Bedford would preserve the trail beneath, plus provide a double track HR line. Yes, I know, NIMBY heads would explode on a seismic scale at the mere suggestion of this, but it just makes too much sense.
 
Ahhh… The mythical YOLO Line. Frequently proposed, but never seen.
 
Elevated rail. There, I said it. Running an elevated line up the Minuteman Trail from the end of the RL tunnel north of Alewife all the way to Bedford would preserve the trail beneath, plus provide a double track HR line. Yes, I know, NIMBY heads would explode on a seismic scale at the mere suggestion of this, but it just makes too much sense.
My head might explode too. Wouldn't an el be more expensive than a cut-and-cover, while also destroying the trail's value as a nice, green linear park?
 
I had something like this in mind, and it would be quite a bit cheaper than either a cut-and-cover or deep bore tunnel:

1729220416197.png
 
Absolutely. LGA, EWR, JFK, BWI, DCA, PHL, and IAD account for about 15% of passengers at Logan today.

PVD is far better suited to be a transit-accessible reliever for Logan than Hanscom. Similarly, better interlining between airlines and Amtrak at Newark.
Logan's capacity constraints are worst in the early morning and late night, which would upset neighbors the most and require nearly 24/7 service to actually be useful.
A bunch of them may be connecting through hubs or onward to international flights those are harder to displace with train vs. trip where NYC is the destination.
 
Elevated rail. There, I said it. Running an elevated line up the Minuteman Trail from the end of the RL tunnel north of Alewife all the way to Bedford would preserve the trail beneath, plus provide a double track HR line. Yes, I know, NIMBY heads would explode on a seismic scale at the mere suggestion of this, but it just makes too much sense.
Trail users would also be virulently opposed to this idea.
 
You'd need a shuttle bus any which way. The Minuteman ROW is almost 2 miles up Hartwell from Hanscom's terminal. It's not exactly rail to the airport's doorstep.
Yeah, I was responding to @393b40 in their pitch to go directly directly to Hanscom with a branch to Burlington. What I failed to make clear (at all) is that I don't think such late branching is worthwhile so what I'm saying is that you can go to Hanscom, Bedford (Maybe, maybe Hanscom to Bedford), or Burlington, but not Hanscom then Burlington. Cue the air travel discussion, so I offered only Bedford or Burlington.
 
I had something like this in mind, and it would be quite a bit cheaper than either a cut-and-cover or deep bore tunnel:

View attachment 57012

Trail users would also be virulently opposed to this idea.

I think elevated rail is an under-considered option, particularly for corridors that are already blighted. I've said before that we should run an el straight down the Pike.

This would require removing a lot of trees though which residents, abutters, and trail users would be rightfully displeased with.

1729256347199.png


If an el was a viable option, why not just leave the path as-is and run the el down Mass Ave, which could even be LRT from Porter.
 
but it just makes too much sense.
Does it though? Ridership projections north of Arlington are horrific, that's why this thread is titled like it is. And it's not really surprising, Arlington has a population density 5 times higher than Lexington. For the amount of political and monetary capital it would take it's probably the single worst hypothetical transit project under broad, general consideration right now.
 
Does it though? Ridership projections north of Arlington are horrific, that's why this thread is titled like it is. And it's not really surprising, Arlington has a population density 5 times higher than Lexington. For the amount of political and monetary capital it would take it's probably the single worst hypothetical transit project under broad, general consideration right now.
Those projections are from the past though. Lexington is one of the success stories of the MBTA communities act. They proceeded in actual good faith and are seeing development in the places that matter. Many of the people against the proposal are doing so on the back of limited bus service so would support it if the MBTA buses were more frequent. Lexington is primed to be what Arlington was minus the catholic hand wringing. You can't argue in good faith that we should extend the red line to Milton, who actively won't densify, and then say that Lexington shouldn't have the red line. The community at large understands that is Cambridge/Boston facing, that transit is important (they have their own municipal buses to serve trolley lines that don't exist anymore and are not covered by the MBTA), and they are willing to densify the core villages of the community where the trains used to stop. The density now is not really a factor when the state is quasi-forcing towns to build housing because we are desperate for it. By the time these things get funded, Lexington WILL be more dense plus we can connect the red line to 128. It's frankly a no-brainer that you're poo-pooing because you want that money applied elsewhere. Choose "yes-and" so that we have plans that are shovel ready when the money is there.
 
Lexington is one of the success stories of the MBTA communities act. They proceeded in actual good faith and are seeing development in the places that matter. Many of the people against the proposal are doing so on the back of limited bus service so would support it if the MBTA buses were more frequent.
That's still a long ways off from heavy rail density though, and when a significantly cheaper option (LRT dinky or better bus service) also exists, it's pretty difficult to justify. It's 3 miles and 6 grade crossings for one station that would (in a perfect world) end up with ridership similar to Orient Heights, or about 4300 people per day.
And I think the size of the vehicles they use on those routes speaks to the demand. There's definitely room for capacity increases there before we need to start thinking about a subway line.
You can't argue in good faith that we should extend the red line to Milton
But you can definitely argue that we should extend the Red Line to Mattapan and Lower Mills, and like it or not the best way to do that goes through Milton. It's the same reason Needham is high on the priority list, not necessarily because they deserve it first, but because it's a requirement to serve West Roxbury and Roslindale.
 
Those projections are from the past though. Lexington is one of the success stories of the MBTA communities act. They proceeded in actual good faith and are seeing development in the places that matter. Many of the people against the proposal are doing so on the back of limited bus service so would support it if the MBTA buses were more frequent. Lexington is primed to be what Arlington was minus the catholic hand wringing. You can't argue in good faith that we should extend the red line to Milton, who actively won't densify, and then say that Lexington shouldn't have the red line. The community at large understands that is Cambridge/Boston facing, that transit is important (they have their own municipal buses to serve trolley lines that don't exist anymore and are not covered by the MBTA), and they are willing to densify the core villages of the community where the trains used to stop. The density now is not really a factor when the state is quasi-forcing towns to build housing because we are desperate for it. By the time these things get funded, Lexington WILL be more dense plus we can connect the red line to 128. It's frankly a no-brainer that you're poo-pooing because you want that money applied elsewhere. Choose "yes-and" so that we have plans that are shovel ready when the money is there.
Anecdotal but to add on Lexington is also trying to supplement their existing transit.
 

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