Redevelopment of Cohen Wing Block (Symphony Hall) | 263-289 Huntington Ave | Fenway

statler said:
The only buildings worth saving are the masterpieces was the mindset of 50's and 60's urban renewal folks.
Click to expand...

I generally agree, but there are scores of better hills to die on than this one. Where were you when we needed to save the corner building in Kenmore that just got razed? This 2 story block just doesn't have nearly the merit of most of the others at risk. Can you point out the part worth saving?
 
DZH22 said:
I generally agree, but there are scores of better hills to die on than this one. Where were you when we needed to save the corner building in Kenmore that just got razed? This 2 story block just doesn't have nearly the merit of most of the others at risk. Can you point out the part worth saving?
Click to expand...

Agreed. Some preservationists fight to save even the most mundane buildings. This makes the public tone deaf to the struggles to save significant buildings.

this building is basically an cheap commercial building from the past with a few flourishes.
 
Czervik.Construction said:
Is this stretch really worth saving? As a former resident of that area (back when Burger King was in the Panera spot), I never found it to be very architecturally appealing. It feels as the the white stone bits are all that is left after decades of fiddling by the owners (i.e., the now dated brown glass, etc.) It is also full of disposable stores that no one will miss.

Am I being harsh?
Click to expand...
Not at all!
 
Czervik.Construction said:
Is this stretch really worth saving? As a former resident of that area (back when Burger King was in the Panera spot), I never found it to be very architecturally appealing. It feels as the the white stone bits are all that is left after decades of fiddling by the owners (i.e., the now dated brown glass, etc.) It is also full of disposable stores that no one will miss.

Am I being harsh?
Click to expand...

No, you are being accurate.
 
But fewer and fewer blocks of Boston are what I consider to be "continuous retail" a la Manhattan avenues. You lose a lot of vitality when a block like this gets redeveloped.
 
Yea I enjoy the small and varied shops there. Once you lose places that house these they're gone forever
 
Speaking in general terms, my only gripe with these redevelopment is that they typically results in sterilized retails replacing the existing retails, i.e. chain stores replacing non-chain stores.

Not that there are many on this strip, Pho & I and the Indian restaurant next door are the only ones I can think of, but I hate it when independent restaurants are replaced with restaurants like Sweetgreens or Chipotle, etc.
 
KentXie said:
Speaking in general terms, my only gripe with these redevelopment is that they typically results in sterilized retails replacing the existing retails, i.e. chain stores replacing non-chain stores.

Not that there are many on this strip, Pho & I and the Indian restaurant next door are the only ones I can think of, but I hate it when independent restaurants are replaced with restaurants like Sweetgreens or Chipotle, etc.
Click to expand...

Yes, this is a concern, but at the same time, this area could use some more density. It's a tough thing to balance. I would definitely miss the Persian place, Moby Dick of Boston, for example.
 
Anyone think the corner parcel behind the Symphony, at Westland and St Stephen, is another great spot for a point power like 1 Dalton? I am pretty sure they own this parcel as well and its close the same size as the 1 Dalton parcel.
 
If the BSO has engaged DS+R, methinks there will be a major cultural component to this.

See:
https://dsrny.com/?index=true&section=studio&view=list&tags=cultural
Note particularly projects done for the London Symphony, and the project in Geneva Switzerland.

Construction has started on this DS+R performing arts center in Worcester.

https://dsrny.com/project/college-o...alse&section=projects&view=list&tags=cultural

^^^ There is a webcam, but it appears the project is still in the excavation stage.
https://www.holycross.edu/webcams/center-arts-and-creativity
 
goody said:
Anyone think the corner parcel behind the Symphony, at Westland and St Stephen, is another great spot for a point power like 1 Dalton? I am pretty sure they own this parcel as well and its close the same size as the 1 Dalton parcel.
Click to expand...

This is exactly their plan. They are current looking for a short term lease for the bank building that sits on that property.
 
ChitchIII said:
This is exactly their plan. They are current looking for a short term lease for the bank building that sits on that property.
Click to expand...

The real question is the "Cohen Wing" now considered part of Symphony Hall -- but an awkward marriage at best

If I was the BSO my plan would borrow from the Gardner -- tear down the Cohen Wing -- build a glass transparent connector between McKim's Masterpiece and anything new or existing
04_symphony_hall_yeo_postcard_crop.jpg


Then a safe distance away -- build modern and relatively unconstrained to support all the functions that have to be shoe horned into the old hall to meet modern needs
 
KentXie said:
Speaking in general terms, my only gripe with these redevelopment is that they typically results in sterilized retails replacing the existing retails, i.e. chain stores replacing non-chain stores.

Not that there are many on this strip, Pho & I and the Indian restaurant next door are the only ones I can think of, but I hate it when independent restaurants are replaced with restaurants like Sweetgreens or Chipotle, etc.
Click to expand...

The solution here is to permit more retail. Boston is generally underretailed, though not as bad as Cambridge or Somerville or many outlying areas. More supply from permitting small stores on every major street would be a major win.

The South End (and to some extent JP) are littered with grandfathered in retail spaces on non commercial corridors....and it's part of the charm.
 
curcuas said:
The solution here is to permit more retail. Boston is generally underretailed, though not as bad as Cambridge or Somerville or many outlying areas. More supply from permitting small stores on every major street would be a major win.

The South End (and to some extent JP) are littered with grandfathered in retail spaces on non commercial corridors....and it's part of the charm.
Click to expand...

Storefront retail is in decline, other than showroom retail and ubiquitous banks and drugstores. There was a recent article in the NY Times about restaurants with no seats, their raison d'etre being to prepare meals for delivery. Restaurateurs were seeing delivered meal sales climb to 75 percent of total sales. Certainly cuts the overhead.

https://www.census.gov/retail/mrts/www/data/pdf/ec_current.pdf

https://www.eater.com/2019/5/1/1852...c-filing-restaurant-food-delivery-app-profits
 
stellarfun said:
Storefront retail is in decline, other than showroom retail and ubiquitous banks and drugstores. There was a recent article in the NY Times about restaurants with no seats, their raison d'etre being to prepare meals for delivery. Restaurateurs were seeing delivered meal sales climb to 75 percent of total sales. Certainly cuts the overhead.

https://www.census.gov/retail/mrts/www/data/pdf/ec_current.pdf

https://www.eater.com/2019/5/1/1852...c-filing-restaurant-food-delivery-app-profits
Click to expand...

Storefront retail in prosperous urban areas is far from in decline. If it were in decline, rents would be falling; actually, rents are surging.

Big boxes in the suburbs? Yeah, they're in decline. But not in urban neighborhoods.
 
whighlander said:
The real question is the "Cohen Wing" now considered part of Symphony Hall -- but an awkward marriage at best

If I was the BSO my plan would borrow from the Gardner -- tear down the Cohen Wing -- build a glass transparent connector between McKim's Masterpiece and anything new or existing

Then a safe distance away -- build modern and relatively unconstrained to support all the functions that have to be shoe horned into the old hall to meet modern needs
Click to expand...

On a related note (I think), I hadn't seen this before.

Boston-Symphony-Hall-Epstein-Joslin-03.jpg


https://www.epsteinjoslin.com/symphony-hall-expansion-study

Anyone know the backstory?
 
curcuas said:
The solution here is to permit more retail. Boston is generally underretailed.....
Click to expand...

i disagree. Rents are insane, labor; expensive, transient, lazy, unreliable and snarky. Retail puts owners in an early grave. Worse, the customer market is broke from paying these insane rents.

1. We may be "under-retailed." But we're near or at peak retail.
2. Retail in age old neighborhoods is tough enough. Setting up retail in these up and coming neighborhoods is an insane gamble. Consider the absurd money put at risk, and recent failed ventures: Leave predicting future retail traffic to the pro's who put up the money.
*Cabo is that rare exception to the rule.
3. The world we see and experience is market driven. Capitalism gets the last word (except in Orwellian California).
4. Don't blame the messenger. 1-3 is undisputed.


Boston doesn't build dense enough to support the retail called for on all these threads. Start filling neighborhoods with thousands of units, and the investors will come.



*(i was in surfing Shipwrecks, 9 Palms, Zippers, Punta Perfecta, Pescadero and Monuments back in the '80s, before anyone ever heard of Cabo. I'm not a get off my lawn guy, but it was wayy better then).
 
odurandina said:
i disagree. Rents are insane, labor; expensive, transient, lazy, unreliable and snarky. Retail puts owners in an early grave. Worse, the customer market is broke from paying these insane rents.

1. We may be "under-retailed." But we're near or at peak retail.
2. Retail in age old neighborhoods is tough enough. Setting up retail in these up and coming neighborhoods is an insane gamble. Consider the absurd money put at risk, and recent failed ventures: Leave predicting future retail traffic to the pro's who put up the money.
*Cabo is that rare exception to the rule.
3. The world we see and experience is market driven. Capitalism gets the last word (except in Orwellian California).
4. Don't blame the messenger. 1-3 is undisputed.


Boston doesn't build dense enough to support the retail called for on all these threads. Start filling neighborhoods with thousands of units, and the investors will come.



*(i was in surfing Shipwrecks, 9 Palms, Zippers, Punta Perfecta, Pescadero and Monuments back in the '80s, before anyone ever heard of Cabo. I'm not a get off my lawn guy, but it was wayy better then).
Click to expand...

Boston builds denser than all cities bar Manhattan, San Francisco and possibly Brooklyn?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top