Regional New England Rail (Amtrak & State DOT & NEC)

[jass]

The Berkshire Flyer was funded (but pointless during COVID) to extend service from the NYC side. That's bigger, closer demand and shorter rail, and an extension of an existing service (NY State sponsored Amtrak), making it much easier to launch than pushing a new Mass-side train.

Debut of Berkshire Flyer service to NYC delayed by legal questions

PITTSFIELD — Unresolved legal issues have stranded a planned trial run this summer of passenger rail service between Pittsfield and New York City.

www.berkshireeagle.com

https://theberkshireedge.com/business-monday-one-mile-at-a-time/

The plan calls for a train to leave New York's Penn Station at 2:20 p.m. Fridays and arrive in Pittsfield at 6:10 p.m. A return trip Sunday would leave Pittsfield at 2:45 p.m. and arrive in New York at 6:45 p.m.

That is exactly what I would need for this upcoming wedding.... Looks like its delayed until 2022. Dumb, should start in July this year.

 

[F-Line to Dudley]

That'd only get a train to SPG as I recall, since NNEIRI was pricing SPG-BOS upgrades . I don't recall it including a PIT-SPG leg. Jass wanted a train all the way to PIT and I was swagging PIT-BOS

https://www.mass.gov/doc/summary-document/download

You don't hit "billions" with a Pittsfield leg. It's 110 miles instead of 54, but there's more pre-existing DT west of Springfield and less need for crossovers because the tippy-toppest BOS-ALB (or, yuck, Pittsfield short-turning) pax schedules are way less than the Inland. 1 intermediate in Chester to go along with Palmer. Using NNEIRI cost scaling, if you assume that worst-case SPG-PIT is 70% of the work of SPG-WOR (it's not...it's likely less), you can arrive via NNEIRI's high end at $1.1B. Or $941M as a low-end. But again...that's probably over-severe because less than half the SPG-PIT distance is still single-track and there wouldn't need to be many interlockings, just destressing.

East-West's minimum Alt. is $1.3B for a shitty 4 cross-corridor round-trips, less than half the schedule NNEIRI was planning to run on the Inland portion. It then pulses up to $3.4B if you go with what NNEIRI was going for an 8-9 round-trip floor. That's absolutely ludicruous, and they cannot explain why it accrues costs at such an astoundingly higher rate. A corridor to Pittsfield vs. a corridor to Springfield will never chunk out like that. What they published was total garbage. You can't base any real-world decisions on what East-West says it'll cost, because literally nothing costs that much and they can't show their math.

The plan calls for a train to leave New York's Penn Station at 2:20 p.m. Fridays and arrive in Pittsfield at 6:10 p.m. A return trip Sunday would leave Pittsfield at 2:45 p.m. and arrive in New York at 6:45 p.m.

That is exactly what I would need for this upcoming wedding....

This one, on the other hand, has very good odds of happening. The only thing really punting it out by few years on calendar vs. implementing now is that NYSDOT needs more equipment for the Empire. They'll get their dibs because the dual-mode loco procurement is underway, and they'll get their turn on the statie options for the Venture coaches once the national pool for the Northeast Regionals is settled. Post-renewal (especially for the locomotive side), New York will be looking to extend some of the Albany short-turn trains into additional full-length frequencies because the equipment cycling will no longer be so constrained as to mandate rationing sets to Hudson Line pingbacks. At which point Pittsfield is one of the easiest repurposements available.

This could be a thing that happens in 7-10 years, whereas East-West from BOS simply has to get junked, rebooted, and stripped of all its funny math before there's something actionable there.

 

[Arlington]

My quote was: " Throwing Billions at rail because the locals think it the only mode worthy of their dignity gets us wasteful projects like Greenbush and South Coast Rail" and I'm sticking to that. It was not specifically an estimate of PIT-BOS ,and would read just well had it begun "Throwing half billions at rail..."

 

[JeffDowntown]

My quote was: " Throwing Billions at rail because the locals think it the only mode worthy of their dignity gets us wasteful projects like Greenbush and South Coast Rail" and I'm sticking to that. It was not specifically an estimate of PIT-BOS ,and would read just well had it begun "Throwing half billions at rail..."

Greenbush and South Coast Rail are two very different examples. I do not think they belong lumped together.

Greenbush is your example of throwing billions at privileged people who think they deserve it because well, rail.

But South Coast Rail should be an important transportation investment in several gateway cities with significant underserved populations. Its implementation is the crime, not the investment itself.

Two very different cases.

 

[fatnoah]

While I personally like the Granite St Option the best, but I can see the appeal of Valley Street for catalyzing TOD development in that 2020 plan.

If Manchester can complete extensions to the various paths along the former M&L and former line to Portsmouth, that'd let the Valley option connect to a regional bike network that already connects that area to points south and west (across the river).

 

[Stlin]

If Manchester can complete extensions to the various paths along the former M&L and former line to Portsmouth, that'd let the Valley option connect to a regional bike network that already connects that area to points south and west (across the river).

I mostly like Granite Street because of its proximity to local buses. In fact, I'd completely ditch the 11 total proposed parking spaces at that location to create a proper multiple berth downtown bus hub, as Manchester buses simply stop by the park. Looking at the route map, it doesn't look too prohibitive to relocate their hub, and that Canal St transportation center for intercity buses is already perfectly sited across the street if way undersized.

Also, this report makes the point really clearly how severely NH underfunds public transport; NH is 49/50 for transit funding, Federal & State combined. For context, NH only beats Wyoming, and the median state *North Dakota* spent $5.04 to NHs $1.00 per capita. In terms of state only funding, NH only contributes $0.42 per capita, and zero operating dollars. By comparison, MA spent $305, and RI $55. Full operating support for Manchester regional service as specified in the 2014 report(3.5m) in 2018 dollars (3.7m) would only add $2.71 per capita, totalling $3.71 still well below the median. Doing so would represent a 6+x increase in all NH state funding for transportation, and would be the first and only NH funding for operations.

 

[xbambam]

Greenbush and South Coast Rail are two very different examples. I do not think they belong lumped together.

Greenbush is your example of throwing billions at privileged people who think they deserve it because well, rail.

But South Coast Rail should be an important transportation investment in several gateway cities with significant underserved populations. Its implementation is the crime, not the investment itself.

Two very different cases.

This is very important information. Thank you.

 

[F-Line to Dudley]

Also, this report makes the point really clearly how severely NH underfunds public transport; NH is 49/50 for transit funding, Federal & State combined. For context, NH only beats Wyoming, and the median state N Dakota spent $5.04 to NHs $1.00 per capita. In terms of state only funding, NH only contributes $0.42 per capita, and zero operating dollars. By comparison, MA spent $305, and RI $55. Full operating support for Manchester regional service as specified in the 2014 report(3.5m) in 2018 dollars (3.7m) would only add $2.71 per capita, totalling $3.71 still well below the median. Doing so would represent a 6+x increase in all NH state funding for transportation, and would be the first and only NH funding for operations.

This is, in a nutshell, why the T really wouldn't be terribly bothered if the Cap Corridor fell apart (again) and retrenched down to just a Nashua border poke. They need a layover for the Lowell Line for enacting Regional Rail, they need to serve a little bit more of the in-state constituency up to the border, and they need to divert some of the "Live Free Or Die" plates slamming Lowell garage at the border. But they know how unreliable NH is as a partner by way of how dysfunctional electoral politics are, so really anything beyond City of Nashua's go-it-alone support ends up gravy. I hope the current momentum in favor of the full Corridor sticks, but I literally would not wager a cent on it holding because the '22 state election could blow the whole thing to smithereens (in SPITE of copious available fed funding) with yet another ideological wild swing in the Legislature and/or Governor's Council.

Third-world New England. They chose it. It's the same state where the ages-old tactic of screaming then doling "TAX BREAKS!" like a common Rifleman has ceased to make commercial tenants blink about considering NH for business relocation, with all that potential growth bypassing them for the nearest MA/ME gateway cities instead. The same state that won't pay for public transit also won't pay for sidewalks or utility buildouts or any material support whatsoever for someone's prospective employment center, so they continue to leech in-state employment and population. Say what you will about the wisdom of choosing those economic fortunes and making themselves even more dependent on Greater Boston's teat (then squabbling themselves out of funding for the means to easily commute there), but at the end of the day they seem eminently comfortable with their choices. Free-dumb's just another word for nothing left to lose. . .

 

[Scalziand]

CTDOT just released the 'TIME FOR CT – Faster trains and travel time improvements in CT' proposal, mostly focusing on the state of repair/eat your peas kind of stuff that F-line likes.
It's still a little disappointing that despite purportedly being just released, it's written citing projects that were to be completed in 2020 and haven't been.

 

[F-Line to Dudley]

CTDOT just released the 'TIME FOR CT – Faster trains and travel time improvements in CT' proposal, mostly focusing on the state of repair/eat your peas kind of stuff that F-line likes.
It's still a little disappointing that despite purportedly being just released, it's written citing projects that were to be completed in 2020 and haven't been.

The track charts are super-detailed for exactly which obsolete infrastructure pinches whose speeds where. That alone makes this pub geek-out city. The improvements definitely do add up.

I'll give CTDOT lots of credit. Their PR dept. has gotten real good the last few years at selling "unsexy improvements" effectively. Most of this stuff is hyper-arcane, but they do a very good job bottom-lining it on the glossies for a general-consumption audience.

 

[bakgwailo]

Oddly enough it seems to be 404'ing now. Looking at it briefly earlier my question is if they are going to try to get the average speeds up to 100mph/fix a bunch of little things that add up on the NEC, will Amtrak also see the same time improvements?

 

[F-Line to Dudley]

Oddly enough it seems to be 404'ing now. Looking at it briefly earlier my question is if they are going to try to get the average speeds up to 100mph/fix a bunch of little things that add up on the NEC, will Amtrak also see the same time improvements?

No...it will not amp up the numerator toplines on the speedometers. This is mainly whacking a bunch of slow-speed spot restrictions that bring death by a thousand cuts, harm the OTP of the whole works up to and including Amtrak, and cap the schedules by limiting train spacing. So long as MNRR traffic density dominates the scene from New Rochelle to Stanford on all 4 tracks with the incredible density that it does, theoretical max speeds are still going to be in the 90-ish range. It's not possible to clear enough room behind the next set of taillights to rev it up much faster than that. That's simply how incredibly dense New Haven Line service ends up...and honestly it wouldn't be substantially better if you bypassed Amtrak to Long Island instead because LIRR Main Line traffic is every bit as saturated in and near the City Zone.

But this ends up doing a world of good by attacking lazy flab in the schedules around the spot restrictions, which really add up because of the sheer number of minor slowdowns en route. Amtrak's relatively brittle OTP through there should improve noticeably as a result, with a few minutes likely pared from being able to shed padding even though they generally won't be going faster throughout. This is all in service of former Gov. Malloy's "30-30-30" service pronouncement, although the state has now adjusted the branding a bit.

 

[ceo]

Is that this report? Alon Levy sure hates the crap out of it.

 

[Wash]

Is that this report? Alon Levy sure hates the crap out of it.

I was going to make a joke about how relentlessly dour Alon's blog is, but since reading it I cannot remember ever experiencing joy.

 

[Jahvon09]

Word is out that Amtrak has selected Simens to make the new train sets that will replace the old Amfleet 1 cars. No rendering is out yet on how they'll look. What will they do with the Sprinter locomotives though? Seems that if they go this route, the Sprinters probably won't be needed, unless they are painted to match the color of the passenger cars.

 

[F-Line to Dudley]

Word is out that Amtrak has selected Simens to make the new train sets to replace the old Amfleet 1
cars. No rendering is out yet on how they'll look. What will they do with the Sprinter locomotives though?

Uhhhhh....for those and other insightful answers to pressing questions you could try reading your own posts from 3 pages ago. Just a suggestion.

 

[Jahvon09]

It is not known now whether they'll still go with these new cars or not. Thought they might back then. They STILL might. We just don't know, since new locos are involved now & no renderings are out.

 

[Stlin]

NHDOT updated Capitol Corridor slides again, this time with Nashua and Manchester follow up. Mixed low high for both in Nashua, and I didn't realize that Nashua Crown St. would require a 4th track for an island, but it makes sense if they're going to be turning trains here. As far as S. Nashua is concerned, why a parking garage when there's already so much parking at the mall? And that Spit Brook Road station... Simply isn't on Spit Brook Road, but damn if that isn't a lot of conceptual additional parking. Also... Why *isn't* there a Southbound ramp off 3? Admittedly, I haven't noticed it before.


Some of the comments from the meeting minutes are... interesting. Mall seems preferred, if the owners on board, but someone wants to Build S. Nashua in Tynsborough. By the scoring presented I also think Granite St is ultimately going to win in Manchester, though the long range plan for the hybrid option is intruiging.

 

[F-Line to Dudley]

It is not known now whether they'll still go with these new cars or not. Thought they might back then. They STILL might. We just don't know, since new locos are involved now & no renderings are out.

Yes, it is known. It has always been known. If it's in electric territory, it's being pulled by a Sprinter. If it's in diesel territory, it's being pulled by a Charger. If it's on the Empire Corridor it's a dual-mode. None of those things was ever in any question.

Why is "unsure" smiley spamming the thread with non-sequitur questions?

 

[F-Line to Dudley]

NHDOT updated Capitol Corridor slides again, this time with Nashua and Manchester follow up. I didn't realize that Nashua Crown St. would require a 4th track for an island, but it makes sense if they're going to be turning trains here. As far as S. Nashua is concerned, why a parking garage when there's already so much parking at the mall? Also... Why *isn't* there a Southbound ramp off 3? Admittedly, I haven't noticed it before.


Some of the comments from the meeting minutes are... interesting. Mall seems preferred, if the owners on board, but someone wants to Build S. Nashua in Tynsborough. By the scoring presented I also think Granite St is ultimately going to win in Manchester, though the long range plan for the hybrid option is intruiging.

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Everything @ Crown St. except the single mainline track is already inside the freight yard and contained in "yard limits" by the signal system, so doesn't really count in the equation. They're really just adding a section of 2nd mainline track back on a turnout, is all. But...UGH!...a mini-high?!?! Lame. We're spoiled somewhat because RIDOT just copypasta'd the official Commuter Rail Design Manual with all its Mass Architectural Board-fortified accessibility regs for the platforms on all its infill CR stations, but NH seems to want to actively want to "nyah!-nyah!" that they aren't legally bound by the M.A.B. The freights have already turned out into the yard here; it can be a full length full-high if they wanted it to be. Oddly pointless design choice.

Spit Brook Rd. for South Nashua was the old siting they were looking at years ago when the Mall owners were being uncooperative. It's decidedly non-preferred, not the least of which because the ex-industrial property abutting it needs some potentially nasty soil remediation. The Mall didn't warm to using their property until the last 4 years or so. They have to treat Spit Brook as an Alt. because it was so well-studied when that was the only alt., while anything/everything involving the Mall is considerably more recent in origin.

I believe NHDOT/MassDOT are jointly planning to add a SB offramp here. Though even if they didn't there's not exactly a shortage of options. Your guess is as good as mine why there has to be a garage there instead of repurposement of the existing Mall overflow lots (which are really only regularly used during Xmas shopping season). I guess it could be because somebody wants to redev the lots into more restaurant/retail...but shouldn't we be getting some sneak preview as to what the redev is first???