Regional Rail (RUR) & North-South Rail Link (NSRL)

Re: North-South Rail Link

jklo said:
Getting the Feds to cough up the $15-$20B needed to fund the link is going to be nearly impossible now. Especially with them being beyond broke.
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Just a gentle reminder here that our elected representatives have approved a $50Bn increase in military spending for 2018, and an additional $50Bn for 2019.

And the IRS estimates that tax evasion reduces federal revenue by about $400Bn/year, but congress won't give the IRS the money to collect that revenue.

Medicare fraud is an additional $60Bn / year, but congress won't stand behind enforcement there either.

And you also may have heard that congress recently voted to borrow an additional $180Bn / year for the next ten years, and distribute it to large corporations and high-income individuals in the form of tax rebates and deductions.

IOW this project may very well never get paid for, but the fed government sure as hell ain't broke....
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

CSTH said:
Just a gentle reminder here that our elected representatives have approved a $50Bn increase in military spending for 2018, and an additional $50Bn for 2019.

And the IRS estimates that tax evasion reduces federal revenue by about $400Bn/year, but congress won't give the IRS the money to collect that revenue.

Medicare fraud is an additional $60Bn / year, but congress won't stand behind enforcement there either.

And you also may have heard that congress recently voted to borrow an additional $180Bn / year for the next ten years, and distribute it to large corporations and high-income individuals in the form of tax rebates and deductions.

IOW this project may very well never get paid for, but the fed government sure as hell ain't broke....
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Reducing taxes for taxpayers just let’s them keep their own money. It’s not a distribution to them. We are the government it’s not a separate thing.
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

jklo said:
Getting the Feds to cough up the $15-$20B needed to fund the link is going to be nearly impossible now. Especially with them being beyond broke. And face it, that's what it's going to cost to do it and to be worth doing. That's sort of why I was kind of looking into alternatives.

I don't think SSX is happening either so my guess is that you will see the status quo for some time.
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"For some time"???? Are you expecting the US debt situation to IMPROVE with the baby boomers hitting age 65 at record levels and the life expectancies expanding?

Waiting won't help. Other funding mechanisms (targeted taxes, etc.) will have to be used. Ignoring mass transit will only clog the arteries further to induce the inevitable heart attack.
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

TallIsGood said:
Reducing taxes for taxpayers just let’s them keep their own money. It’s not a distribution to them. We are the government it’s not a separate thing.
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And at some point the taxpayers are going to realize the ability to transport oneself is kind of important too.

The idea that mass transit projects are merely confiscation without benefit is a tired canard. Should there be active expense management? Of course.
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

shmessy said:
And at some point the taxpayers are going to realize the ability to transport oneself is kind of important too.

The idea that mass transit projects are merely confiscation without benefit is a tired canard. Should there be active expense management? Of course.
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And people really need to get over the mistaken concept that transit projects only help people who use transit.

By taking people who can use transit off the roads, they also make more space for people who have to drive and speed the delivery of goods by truck, etc. Lots of benefits to be shared.
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

TallIsGood said:
Reducing taxes for taxpayers just let’s them keep their own money. It’s not a distribution to them. We are the government it’s not a separate thing.
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Yes, we are the goverment, and that money has already been spent. Unless we are running a surplus (ha) and have generally paid down the national debt, lowering taxes while increasing spending isn't allowing tax payers to keep their own money - its kickbacks to one generation and forcing the next to pay for it.
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

bakgwailo said:
Yes, we are the goverment, and that money has already been spent. Unless we are running a surplus (ha) and have generally paid down the national debt, lowering taxes while increasing spending isn't allowing tax payers to keep their own money - its kickbacks to one generation and forcing the next to pay for it.
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It’s not a kickback to pay less.
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

shmessy said:
When you are running a debt it is.

And it cheats future generations.
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If a business is running a deficit and lowers the price of their product, is that a kickback to the customers?
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

Alright, let's put a pin this. Federal tax policy is interesting and has impact on NSRL, but let's try to only discuss what is directly relevant to NSRL and not the whole ideological big picture.
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

DominusNovus said:
If a business is running a deficit and lowers the price of their product, is that a kickback to the customers?
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If they continue to spend the money they don't have, borrow, and then give it to the shareholders - then, yeah, that is pretty much a kickback to the shareholders, which taxpayers are much more analogous to.

But, anyways, I agree - way off topic, and the Fed, if it wanted, could pretty easily fund the NSRL - $10-20 Billion is a drop in the hat/rounding error on the federal budget, and really not that bad that the money needed for SSX + NSX if we don't do it.
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

fattony said:
Alright, let's put a pin this. Federal tax policy is interesting and has impact on NSRL, but let's try to only discuss what is directly relevant to NSRL and not the whole ideological big picture.
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We know NSRL would be a improvement and open up job and housing opportunities that now seem blocked by the North South divide in both transit and the bottleneck in the road network.

We do need further prioritization of all the proposed projects based on the numbers because we need to justify new capital investments in terms of return on investment in new economic activity and ability to maintain that new and existing infrastructure for the next fifty or hundred years.

And we have a chicken and egg problem on the demand side because currently a lot of people are avoiding home to work travel patterns that go from North to South and vice versa precisely because of this gap in the system. Usually you just look at current and future demand and model the dollars saved by reducing travel times and there is a pretty clear cost and benefit calculation and you can ignore the network and additional economic effects.

With NSRL it appears to be that the network effects are the primary benefits and not primarily the time savings on any already established routes. And it is hard to argue that downtown Boston needs any additional infrastructure as it is nearing what is probably a max build-out based on existing transportation infrastructure. So really the economic development benefits would be in people being able to move from one side of the metro area through the city and get to areas on the other side of the city outside the immediate downtown areas, so enabling more economic development to the North and South of Boston... which is its own issue unique to our political boundaries on a big project like this.
 
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Re: North-South Rail Link

DominusNovus said:
If a business is running a deficit and lowers the price of their product, is that a kickback to the customers?
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Your analogy is completely wrong.

In this case, the "customers" are the OWNERS - - therefore the CUSTOMERS are on the hook for the debt.

Just keeping more money in the customers' pockets without paying any attention to the debt they have incurred is indeed a kickback to the selfish current customers at the expense of their future progeny. That is shameful.

The real ongoing fiscal time bomb with regard to transit services isn't infrastructure costs, it is the exploding pension problem. Knocking out most of the increasingly unnecessary human/union labor will eventually give transit a huge operational boost.

To all the shortsighted naysayers, just like in human biology, hardened arteries for societies results in death. Too many of the "Me Generation" are saying "Who cares, I'll be dead by time the disaster hits".

The dreamers with grandiose infrastructure ideas and no fiscal sanity are just as wrong.

The future belongs to the wise who connect both, otherwise you better start learning Mandarin.
 
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Re: North-South Rail Link

State debt is different than Federal debt. Federal debt can be paid for by inflating the money supply through borrowing from the Federal Reserve (or theoretically through taxes, but that never happens anymore). State debt has to be paid with taxes. Completely different calculation of burden when considering the local, state and Federal costs.
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

tangent said:
State debt is different than Federal debt. Federal debt can be paid for by inflating the money supply through borrowing from the Federal Reserve (or theoretically through taxes, but that never happens anymore). State debt has to be paid with taxes. Completely different calculation of burden when considering the local, state and Federal costs.
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The debt regarding state debt for future generations is the debt of not being able to get from point A to point B as well as our competitors in Mumbai, Shanghai, Frankfurt and Tokyo.... or Philadelphia which achieved their version of the NSRL a few years ago to great benefit. That will be a crushing debt to Greater Boston.

Once again, the solution is automation and getting rid of the overpaid union hacks and their pensions. The answer is right there. It needs to be built.
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

tangent said:
State debt is different than Federal debt. Federal debt can be paid for by inflating the money supply through borrowing from the Federal Reserve (or theoretically through taxes, but that never happens anymore). State debt has to be paid with taxes. Completely different calculation of burden when considering the local, state and Federal costs.
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Also worth noting, Federal debt, quite conveniently, never actually has to be paid.
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

TallIsGood said:
Reducing taxes for taxpayers just let’s them keep their own money. It’s not a distribution to them. We are the government it’s not a separate thing.
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It is absolutely a distribution of wealth. Younger generations will be paying for the greed(plus interest!) of old millionaires for decades to come.

Giving money away to billionaires who will just hoard it is the dumbest thing you can do, so of course it was the #1 priority of republicans. Meanwhile the infrastructure in this country is a joke. People from Japan, China, Europe are probably embarrassed for us when they visit. But at least we have tanks the military will never use. USA USA!
 
Re: North-South Rail Link

Kinopio said:
It is absolutely a distribution of wealth. Younger generations will be paying for the greed(plus interest!) of old millionaires for decades to come.

Giving money away to billionaires who will just hoard it is the dumbest thing you can do, so of course it was the #1 priority of republicans. Meanwhile the infrastructure in this country is a joke. People from Japan, China, Europe are probably embarrassed for us when they visit. But at least we have tanks the military will never use. USA USA!
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We get it. Shall we talk about the actual rail project again?
 
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