Regional Rail (RUR) & North-South Rail Link (NSRL)

[bobthebuilder]

Re: North-South Rail Link

I think this is a problem for all transit system that does not use an exit fare. They don't have data on which station the passenger exits at.

Good point, or at least an exit verification of correct payment.

Systems with good data use distance or zone based fares with exit verification.

The fare gates are capable of tracking alightings without any kind of exit fare. Even the mechanical turnstiles are capable of tracking the entrances & exits.

The only real difficulty in tracking exits is the green line, buses, commuter rail, etc where you're not passing through a fare gate to exit. However, with the improvements in GPS technology, automatic passenger counting is becoming more common on buses (and I would assume light rail systems).

 

[Arlington]

Re: North-South Rail Link

That's a lot of lines for 2 tracks. Keep in mind that a patrol, track work, or any sort of break-down/incident means you're immediately down to a single track operation. A major failure of the Hudson tunnel is that the NEC only has two tracks and is limited to 23 trains-per-hour in each direciton. If we are limited to three RER-type lines on each side, then we are already at 18 TPH each direction with 10 minute headways.

Isn't the problem in the Hudson tunnel at least partly that NJT does *not* run through, gumming things up with platform dwells at Penn Station (NYP)?

20 trains per hour (TPH) is a train every 3 minutes.

The RedX could likely get to 3 minutes very quickly...all the electrification is there on day 1 and the signals and brake/accel/doors could get there with the right rolling stock and better platform organization, which should be taken as a sign of Red's need and a sign of Red X success, not that its tracks should be assigned to CR.

The big commuter lines get to 20 TPH at
4x 128-Lynn
4x 128-Anderson
4x 128-Brandeis
4x Natick-Lynn
4x Natick-Anderson

See how this also makes useful service on the northside? That's important for driving usage. And you can still intersperse diesels from the un-electrified "farther outs" (like Haverhill running diesel on Lowell Line)

This respects the rough relative daily-ridership sizes of these branches:
12k NEC (128)
8k Framingham Worcester (Natick)
8k Newbury-Rockport
6k Lowell
6k Fitchburg

If you really think that you'll be overlaying additional trains to/from far out branches, they'll (1) probably better as diesel and (2) if so must terminate on the surface.

It also kind of shows that the way to deliver awesome service to the Old Colony service area is to do so on the Red Line and double tracking through the pinch along 93 and give the Middleboro line great service to SSX.

 

[Blackdog]

Re: North-South Rail Link

The fare gates are capable of tracking alightings without any kind of exit fare. Even the mechanical turnstiles are capable of tracking the entrances & exits.

The only real difficulty in tracking exits is the green line, buses, commuter rail, etc where you're not passing through a fare gate to exit. However, with the improvements in GPS technology, automatic passenger counting is becoming more common on buses (and I would assume light rail systems).

Well yeah the fare gates are capable of tracking exits without an exit tap but I believe they are referring to being able to track a single rider's full trip from entrance to exit, which you can't do in the system today since there is no exit tap. Like The EGE said there are pretty good prediction algorithms that MBTA uses.

Exit taps are never going to happen on the MBTA unless there are some serious station changes to ensure safety. A good example is Central station where the fare gates are basically right at the platform. Imagine how crazy it would be to get in and out of that station if everyone had to tap and out.

 

[Balerion]

Re: North-South Rail Link

IT'S HAPPENING

And by "IT", I mean an RFP for a study to determine if a more extensive study is needed.

 

[Jahvon09]

Re: North-South Rail Link

IT'S HAPPENING

And by "IT", I mean an RFP for a study to determine if a more extensive study is needed.

Maine to Washington DC?!!

I can just imagine how long THAT project will take to complete!

 

[stefal]

Re: North-South Rail Link

Maine to Washington DC?!!

I can just imagine how long THAT project will take to complete!

It's already done, apart from the section involving NSRL.

 

[CSTH]

Re: North-South Rail Link

F-line, I'm really good at PowerPoint - what say you and me bid on this together?

 

[393b40]

Re: North-South Rail Link

Bleh. Would rather they get Red-Blue moving. This project is useless for actual Boston residents.

 

[fattony]

Re: North-South Rail Link

Bleh. Would rather they get Red-Blue moving. This project is useless for actual Boston residents.

I agree about Red-Blue, but NSRL does a lot for transfer relief on all 4 subways too.

 

[JumboBuc]

Re: North-South Rail Link

I agree about Red-Blue, but NSRL does a lot for transfer relief on all 4 subways too.

I get Red, Green, and Orange, but how would NSRL affect the Blue? It doesn't stop at North or South Station.

 

[reverend_paco]

Re: North-South Rail Link

I get Red, Green, and Orange, but how would NSRL affect the Blue? It doesn't stop at North or South Station.

I believe Central Station ties the extened red-line to Aquarium.

 

[BostonUrbEx]

Re: North-South Rail Link

Isn't the problem in the Hudson tunnel at least partly that NJT does *not* run through, gumming things up with platform dwells at Penn Station (NYP)?

There's plenty of platforms at Penn, I wouldn't think the two are related all that much. Another major issue with the Hudson tunnel is that maintenance, especially the heavy stuff, can rarely be done (and has been put off far too much) leading to critical states of disrepair.

If you really think that you'll be overlaying additional trains to/from far out branches, they'll (1) probably better as diesel and (2) if so must terminate on the surface.

Why would they be better as diesel? They wouldn't be. We shouldn't condemn all of the longer-distance lines to an eternity of surface termination and no run-through.

 

[BostonUrbEx]

Re: North-South Rail Link

Bleh. Would rather they get Red-Blue moving. This project is useless for actual Boston residents.

For one, that's absurd that there's no benefit to Boston residents. And two, that is absurd to say that only Boston should get funding for transportation. Red-Blue is important, but it isn't going to be as important as NSRL.

I get Red, Green, and Orange, but how would NSRL affect the Blue? It doesn't stop at North or South Station.

Just throwing this out there, but potential siphoning of riders from Chelsea, Lynn, Swampscott, Marblehead, and Salem who would otherwise head over to the Blue Line.

 

[fattony]

Re: North-South Rail Link

I get Red, Green, and Orange, but how would NSRL affect the Blue? It doesn't stop at North or South Station.

I believe Central Station ties the extened red-line to Aquarium.

True, the benefits to Blue are slimmer, though Blue is not heavily congested and doesn't need as much help anyway. Even without Central Station though, removing a number of people from State and GC stations is some relief for Blue riders who will continue to use those stations.

 

[shmessy]

Re: North-South Rail Link

Bleh. Would rather they get Red-Blue moving. This project is useless for actual Boston residents.

WHOA! Useless for Boston residents?????

This will open up precious development/expansion space at both South and North Stations.

Currently (and if nothing is done about a link, future) much precious development space at both stub ends goes toward reverse tracking and train parking.

THINK for a moment what could happen at Fort Point Channel and North Station development-wise.

Also, think about what could be expanded (straight track-wise - not parking or back up track-wise) at those two stations with that proposed efficiency.

This would revolutionize the North Station area

http://www.lesvants.com/stock/BOSTO...6/pages/9-2-16_boston-stock_6820-103 copy.htm


and South Station (and Fort Point Channel - which should be future Boston landmark if/when the USPS moves out).

http://www.lesvants.com/stock/BOSTO...6/pages/9-2-16_boston-stock_6820-140 copy.htm

Thinking about the addditional housing and tax revenue that could be added from those two areas (regardless of the North Shore and South Shore residents being able to get to "the other side" easier), the transfer relief for all 4 T lines, the surface cab/Uber traffic relief and the cost savings to AMTRAK, the MBTA and MASSDOT. It is exponential.

 

[Arlington]

Re: North-South Rail Link

Why would they be better as diesel? They wouldn't be. We shouldn't condemn all of the longer-distance lines to an eternity of surface termination and no run-through.

Money. Given the low density of service.

 

[Semass]

Re: North-South Rail Link

Bleh. Would rather they get Red-Blue moving. This project is useless for actual Boston residents.

Like the actual Boston residents along the Fairmount Corridor and Indigo Line?

 

[ShawnA]

Re: North-South Rail Link

In my opinion this is the best time to address the transit issue in the seaport as well. Have a line go from south station-seaport-new England aquarium-then north station.

 

[BostonUrbEx]

Re: North-South Rail Link

Money. Given the low density of service.

I disagree that Providence, Worcester, Fitchburg, Lowell, Lawrence, Haverhill, and perhaps Nashua, Manchester, and Portsmouth should get "low density of service," but anyway....

In my opinion this is the best time to address the transit issue in the seaport as well. Have a line go from south station-seaport-new England aquarium-then north station.

Dear God, no. This isn't the way to do it. Central Station is debatable, but adding nasty, tight curves and a Seaport stop is just going to gum up capacity. One thing I could get behind is relocating the Red Line between South Station and Andrew so that it swings towards the Seaport and BCEC a little bit.

 

[fattony]

Re: North-South Rail Link

One thing I could get behind is relocating the Red Line between South Station and Andrew so that it swings towards the Seaport and BCEC a little bit.

If you move Broadway, you'll be taking away even more transit from the grossly underserved South End. That is a non-starter, unless coupled with proper rapid transit on Washington.