Rose Kennedy Greenway

^The obvious difference being that a) Central Park is a pastoral wonderland within city limits and the Greenway is an over-sized median strip, and b) Central Park was designed by the great Olmstead and the Greenway was hardly designed at all (and yet over entirely over stylized).
 
If the Greenway had trees like Central Park, it would be a lot better. Great? Maybe not. But still an improvement, IMO. Seriously why does it have to be so bare...
 
BostonUrbEx said:
If the Greenway had trees like Central Park, it would be a lot better. Great? Maybe not. But still an improvement, IMO. Seriously why does it have to be so bare...
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I mean, the first thing you do when building a suburb is cut down all the trees and plant three saplings.
 
found5dollar said:
looking at how skinny and how crowded the high line is got me thinking... is it possible to have two much park in an area? Could the fact that this park looks like it is hopping be because you have a good amount of people in a small space, but if you spread the same number of people over an expanse like the greenway it appears alot less engaging? Could you reach a point where there is almost too much park, so no one gathers there anymore becasue it no longer feels like there are alot of people there? Am i making any sense?
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Quality over quantity.
 
Arborway said:
I mean, the first thing you do when building a suburb is cut down all the trees and plant three saplings.
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SOP is to cut down the trees and then name streets after them. The irony of your screen name and the content of your post is especially delicious.
 
BostonUrbEx said:
If the Greenway had trees like Central Park, it would be a lot better. Great? Maybe not. But still an improvement, IMO. Seriously why does it have to be so bare...
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The only difference will be that the Greenway will fail in the shade.
 
^ Enter the Atlantic Avenue Greenway Waterfront Aqua Line (a streetcar).
 
^^You'll see teleportation technology perfected first.
 
AmericanFolkLegend said:
A better bet would be a dedicated lane running a trolley or bus on the existing surface road. This would reduce traffic capacity along Atlantic Ave and make it feel less like a highway median. This would also be the cheapest way to connect N & S Stations.
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Something I've been championing as well Ablarc. Dedicated bus lanes and light rail are the most economically efficient modes of public transport.
 
Off topic:

Kennedy, I really dislike your .sig. It's the reasoning behind tearing down things like the SCL building.

We can (and should) learn a lot more from our past than just 'where we've come from and what we stand for'. We can learn our mistakes and how to avoid them (i.e. Urban Renewal) and our successes and how to emulate them (i.e. a few millennia of city building prior to Urban Renewal).

Sorry for the interruption.
 
So today I took a stroll with my girlfriend down the Greenway just to see how it ticks (or not) Time was around 2:30pm, temperature at around 72 F, partly cloudy. Everything is based on my observation and my opinion so bear with me. I started from the Chinatowns Parks and ended at Columbus Park.

As I started the walk, I wanted to see exactly how successful the Greenway is. Recently Kairos Shen made it seem like the parks are a destination for people to visit. As I began the walk from Chinatown, I made a conscious effort to count the number of people at the parks.

For the first few parcels, I found more people walking on either side of the sidewalks than the Greenway itself. From that observation, I concluded that not people actually comes to this section of the Greenway to enjoy the parks but more to get from one place to another. However, even if that was the purpose the park was trying to serve, it failed miserably because there weren't any pedestrians. I concluded the reason being the highway like traffic on either side of the parks, making each parcel like a deserted island, surrounded by shark infested water.

As I continued along, I began taking notice on the parks decor. Of course, I'm not a landscape architect, but I did enjoy the type of foilage that can be found there. However, as I continued down the park, I realized that the walk feels more like a hike than being in a park. The parks didn't give me a urban park feeling is probably what I'm trying to get at. I also noticed the little statues that they have on the parks which I felt was a nice touch. Sadly, there wasn't enough people to admire them.

At this point I asked my girlfriend how she felt about the Greenway. She gave a comparison between the Greenway and the Boston Common, saying how although it is green, the park lacks any visitors due to the fact it is not surrounded by places to be. For most of the Greenway, it is surrounded by office towers and no ground retail or shop. People walk past the Greenway to go from office to office, or to go to the more attractive Post Office Sq park to enjoy their lunch. Maybe the NIMBYs were onto something. Whatever gets build nearby needs to not only bring more people into the area, but engage the pedestrian....on either side of the median strip. Problem is, the moat around each parcel will probably prevent pedestrians from spilling over from the engaging sides to the Greenway.

As I headed to the more successful parks, I notice one type of people the Greenway has attracted. Hobos, a few sleeping on the benches. Has the Greenway become a new desitination for the homeless? The fountain was pretty bare though but that's probably because people were still at work. I decided to head over to Columbus Park afterwards, which was quite lively. It seems like the Greenway was more of an extension of Columbus Park than a separate entity.

Anyways, some finishing observation:
Parks serve the purpose of bringing you out of the city. The entire time, I am reminded of being inside the city by the rushing of cars on either side

The Greenway is not a destination. It feels like a hassle to cross over the 3 lanes of traffic just to get to the parks. I.e. it is a median strip, nothing more, nothing less.

The people that spoke of being able to spend time on the parks probably do it rarely. The entire time there, I felt the park was not attractive whatsoever in keeping me there for more than 10 minutes. If only Ned was here to criticize the fact that you sucking in exhaust fumes the entire time you are sitting there.

It's boring. Aside from the fountains, there's nothing much to do other than sunbathe. But why sunbathe at the Greenway when a more attractive option is available at CP? Most sunbather already knows that which is why I always see sunbathers at CP and maybe one or two at RFKG. Throwing a ball or frisbee is a death wish.

Kairos Shen said the RFKG is successful. I don't know if his standards are high or low but the RFKG is nowhere near the level that is acceptable.
 
Well, I guess I interpreted it differently. I think this is the reasoning that is opposed to the mediocrity of most "contextual" architecture and planning practices today. The Greenway is the result of a "yearning for an imagined past that never really was." SCL is a very definite past, and a very significant part of where we've come from - thus we should protect it. But we shouldn't mindlessly emulate the building.
 
KentXie said:
The entire time, I am reminded of being inside the city by the rushing of cars on either side.
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In the Wharf District at least, they could have easily put both directions of traffic on one roadway along the east side of the corridor, thus creating a park with no road to cross along its west side.

Why they didn't do this totally baffles me.
 
KentXie said:
So today I took a stroll with my girlfriend down the Greenway just to see how it ticks (or not) Time was around 2:30pm, temperature at around 72 F, partly cloudy. Everything is based on my observation and my opinion so bear with me. I started from the Chinatowns Parks and ended at Columbus Park.

As I started the walk, I wanted to see exactly how successful the Greenway is. Recently Kairos Shen made it seem like the parks are a destination for people to visit. As I began the walk from Chinatown, I made a conscious effort to count the number of people at the parks.

For the first few parcels, I found more people walking on either side of the sidewalks than the Greenway itself. From that observation, I concluded that not people actually comes to this section of the Greenway to enjoy the parks but more to get from one place to another. However, even if that was the purpose the park was trying to serve, it failed miserably because there weren't any pedestrians. I concluded the reason being the highway like traffic on either side of the parks, making each parcel like a deserted island, surrounded by shark infested water.

As I continued along, I began taking notice on the parks decor. Of course, I'm not a landscape architect, but I did enjoy the type of foilage that can be found there. However, as I continued down the park, I realized that the walk feels more like a hike than being in a park. The parks didn't give me a urban park feeling is probably what I'm trying to get at. I also noticed the little statues that they have on the parks which I felt was a nice touch. Sadly, there wasn't enough people to admire them.

At this point I asked my girlfriend how she felt about the Greenway. She gave a comparison between the Greenway and the Boston Common, saying how although it is green, the park lacks any visitors due to the fact it is not surrounded by places to be. For most of the Greenway, it is surrounded by office towers and no ground retail or shop. People walk past the Greenway to go from office to office, or to go to the more attractive Post Office Sq park to enjoy their lunch. Maybe the NIMBYs were onto something. Whatever gets build nearby needs to not only bring more people into the area, but engage the pedestrian....on either side of the median strip. Problem is, the moat around each parcel will probably prevent pedestrians from spilling over from the engaging sides to the Greenway.

As I headed to the more successful parks, I notice one type of people the Greenway has attracted. Hobos, a few sleeping on the benches. Has the Greenway become a new desitination for the homeless? The fountain was pretty bare though but that's probably because people were still at work. I decided to head over to Columbus Park afterwards, which was quite lively. It seems like the Greenway was more of an extension of Columbus Park than a separate entity.

Anyways, some finishing observation:
Parks serve the purpose of bringing you out of the city. The entire time, I am reminded of being inside the city by the rushing of cars on either side

The Greenway is not a destination. It feels like a hassle to cross over the 3 lanes of traffic just to get to the parks. I.e. it is a median strip, nothing more, nothing less.

The people that spoke of being able to spend time on the parks probably do it rarely. The entire time there, I felt the park was not attractive whatsoever in keeping me there for more than 10 minutes. If only Ned was here to criticize the fact that you sucking in exhaust fumes the entire time you are sitting there.

It's boring. Aside from the fountains, there's nothing much to do other than sunbathe. But why sunbathe at the Greenway when a more attractive option is available at CP? Most sunbather already knows that which is why I always see sunbathers at CP and maybe one or two at RFKG. Throwing a ball or frisbee is a death wish.

Kairos Shen said the RFKG is successful. I don't know if his standards are high or low but the RFKG is nowhere near the level that is acceptable.
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You should go there during a weekend... a MUCH different scene. Between the saturation of people spilling over from the Haymarket farmers' stands and the countless families going to the Aquarium and other area museums (Children's Museum, Paul Revere House), I always notice people out on the greenway this time of year. That was the case last summer and that's been the case this summer.

Additionally, any time I bike over to the ICA from Northeastern (weekend or weekday) I use the Greenway median and see pedestrian traffic throughout it; however, it goes in pockets. From the TD Bank Garden to Haymarket Station it's generally empty. Then from Haymarket/Hanover Street down to the I-90 exit ramps it's packed with tourists. Quickly after the exit ramps it picks up again (in front of Columbus Park), loads of tourists around the fountains and greenspace by the aquarium, and then a moderate number of people picnicing, sunbathing, or walking through the greenway up until Rowes Wharf. Only between Rowes and Atlantic Wharf is it dead again, but between South Station and Chinatown energy picks up... but by that point the greenway ends anyway.

Coming from South Florida, I really find it tough to understand the moaning and groaning Bostonians make about this greenway (particularly members on this forum). Countless other cities across the US would kill for the opportunity Boston got to bury a major eye soar of a highway under the city and add hundreds of acres of greenspace to their downtown. The greening project only finished a couple years ago. It'll take a whole lot longer for area office buildings and residential towers to redevelop in a way that promotes pedestrian activity and draws greater foot traffic into that part of the city.

Patience.
 
A small nitpick: the area between the TD Garden and Haymarket is not part of the Greenway. It's just an unbuilt lot awaiting development.
 
As I headed to the more successful parks, I notice one type of people the Greenway has attracted. Hobos, a few sleeping on the benches. Has the Greenway become a new desitination for the homeless? The fountain was pretty bare though but that's probably because people were still at work.
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Ha ha! I went by the RKG today. The fountain was packed with kids playing and . . . .wait for it . . . a homeless guy in sweatpants and a t-shirt bathing.
 
Coming from South Florida, I really find it tough to understand the moaning and groaning Bostonians make about this greenway (particularly members on this forum). Countless other cities across the US would kill for the opportunity Boston got to bury a major eye soar of a highway under the city and add hundreds of acres of greenspace to their downtown. The greening project only finished a couple years ago. It'll take a whole lot longer for area office buildings and residential towers to redevelop in a way that promotes pedestrian activity and draws greater foot traffic into that part of the city.
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Well I'm glad to hear the Greenway passed the vital "it's so much more urban than South Florida" test. I think the Seaport might even pass that too!

Funny how New York didn't need to be "patient" for thousands of people to be instantly attracted to the High Line. When Central Park first opened, it was similarly mobbed. Millennium Park in Chicago has been a tourist attraction from its inception. The public knows good public space when they see it. The Greenway's desertion is not an ill that will be cured by time or thicker foliage.
 
Is anyone fooled by the idea that this park will be a "tribute to all immigrants" because of the addition of a tiny abstract sculpture?

Also, does Boston have a Turkish consulate? It probably won't anymore.

armen__1275819692_0048-4.jpg


Design for tribute, gratitude
Hub?s Armenian genocide park will pay homage to all immigrants
By Meghan E. Irons
Globe Staff / June 6, 2010

The patch of Rose Kennedy Fitzgerald Greenway next to the wharf promenade and the spectacular Christopher Columbus Park looks barren now. But by fall, officials say, trees will surround a labyrinth of granite pathways, winding inward to a jet of water. From atop a 16-foot reflecting pool, a 12-sided, shape-shifting sculpture will stand as an homage to the immigrant experience in America and the 1915-era Armenian genocide that took about 1.5 million lives.

After years of planning and controversy, construction is finally set to begin this summer on Armenian Heritage Park.

For Armenian immigrants like architect Donald J. Tellalian, who worked for six years before presenting the final design to North End residents this week, it is a moment charged with emotion.

?For those of us who came to this country and are fortunate to have made new lives, it will be an opportunity for my grandchildren and great-grandchildren to come and visit and understand that it has meaning,?? he said, tears welling up.

The park is a gift to the city from the Armenian Heritage Foundation, formed about six years ago to develop a parcel along the milelong Greenway into a symbol of gratitude to a country that gave their forebears refuge.

?What this symbolizes is that we all came here for a reason,?? said James Kalustian, president of the foundation, which raised more than $5 million for the park.

Each element in the park is meant to depict parts of the immigrant experience. The fountain represents hope and faith; the labyrinth, the immigrant?s journey. The geometric sculpture will be reconfigured into new shapes each year to reflect the reshaped lives of those uprooted from their homeland to start again in a new one.

The foundation has endowments to finance the maintenance of the park and the annual reconfiguration of the sculpture, as well as multicultural programming and a series of lectures on human rights.

The park will be the second parcel along the Greenway to be developed this year. Earlier this month, city officials broke ground on the Greenway?s first building, a 4,500-square-foot pavilion that will serve as a gateway to the Boston Harbor Island National Park. Work is expected to be completed next spring, said Kairos Shen, chief city planner for the Boston Redevelopment Authority.

Shen hailed the foundation for sticking to the park project and working with city, state, and community officials to modify initial concepts for it. The foundation had wanted a park of remembrance to honor the struggle of Armenians. But early in the process, the idea drew criticism from the Greenway Conservancy and city officials, including the mayor, who wanted the Greenway free of memorials, to avoid becoming a collection of monuments like those on the National Mall.

?The concept is much broader now,?? said Shen. ?It?s open space that celebrates all immigrants,?? among them the Armenians and their plight.

Nancy Brennan, executive director of the Greenway Conservancy, said differences about concepts for the public parkland were quickly ironed out and now there is wide support for the park.

?The Armenian Heritage Park should be recognized as a very important theme for new Bostonians and new immigrants coming into this country,?? said Brennan. ?We are thrilled this is coming to the Greenway.?

In the North End, residents are also pleased that another bland strip of land will soon become an attractive space for residents to grab sandwiches or reflect on the past.

?We waited a long time for this,?? said Pasqua Scibelli, a former vice president of the North End Waterfront Council.

A wave of pride is sweeping the Armenian community as it gears up for groundbreaking of the park this summer, said state Representative Peter J. Koutoujian.

?Many people did not think that a small community like the Armenians could persevere like this,?? he said. ?We have been wounded deeply . . . but we have a strong faith in ourselves.??

Meghan Irons can be reached at mirons@globe.com.
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I like the parks design alot. I'm not so sure it's going to be as culturally significant as they make it seem though, however, it's good that some parcels are starting to get developed.
 
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