Rose Kennedy Greenway

TheRifleman said:
All Menino is doing is bringing down Shen and Palmeri.
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Correct. Shen and Palmieri both have backgrounds that suggest they could do better for Boston.

But if past is prologue, that's not going to happen.

The last BRA Director who stood up to the Mayor was slapped by a screen door on his way out (O'Brien). Four former BRA Directors went to work for developers, bringing their projects to the BRA (O'Brien, Walsh, Ryan, Kenney).
 
This article is trash from start to finish.

"...it is becoming the go-to place for the cool crowd."

No -- the Seaport is not.

"...the city becomes more diversified, so do its culinary offerings."

Is Boston really becoming more diverse? Was it not already?

"The Charles River is cleaning up nicely."

Um, ok.
 
The author was likely given the thankless assignment of hyping Boston's new developments. Whether she actually loved them or not, it wouldn't make much of an exciting travel piece to admit that nothing the city has built in the last 20 years is worth a glance, and that visitors should stick to old classics.
 
From the NYT piece:

".. a mile-long ribbon of lawns, public art and much-needed playgrounds snaking along Atlantic Avenue......At Christopher Columbus Park, find a spot under a wisteria-covered trellis and watch as boats bob in the harbor and planes take off from Logan Airport. ...."

Christopher Columbus Park has been there for decades, not part of the Greenway.

Much needed playgrounds? Maybe the North End park (at Hanover St.) and the Chinatown park serve that role, but the rest of the Greenway is just a median strip in the middle of nowhere.

And this Shen character apparently wants to further dissipate central Boston into pockets of development seperated by wind-blown empty corridors, endless lawns, surface highways and fortress like superblocks. I was in Dallas for a week recently, and that is exactly what it is like. Too bad Boston has become that way as well.
 
To someone not familiar with the history, just seeing the area with fresh eyes, Christopher Columbus Park appears to be continuous with the Greenway.
 
How so? In the same way, the Public Garden and Commonwealth Avenue Mall are linear extensions of the Common. Someone not familiar with the history would see a continuous park of varying character and dimensions.
 
I mean that it needs better definition. There needs to be a street wall on the Greenway side with some type of urban design element which would lead the pedestrian from Quincy Market to Columbus Park (something more dramatic than a lawn). Like you said, the Public Garden and Comm Ave Mall are designed to be a continuation of the Common. There is a path you walk with a dramatic reveal. That whole thing works. The Greenway/Columbus Park not so much.
 
Here is what the rose kennedy greenway needs to attract people, based on what is IN, in subruban california.

1. Dog park. Fenced in area where all kinds of dogs can roam free. Make sure you pick up after them! A smaller area can be fenced off for the tinier breeds.
2. Giant playground, with canopies. How many slides is too many? Theres never too many! Ive seen playgrounds with 7! Also, mini rock climbing for the kids.
3. Water features. (Already in place)
4. Bocce court, preferably two.
5. Exercise equipment. Think of the exercise stations on the esplanade, but with more complicated machines. No weights, everything uses your own body mass against you
6. Public restrooms.

Im half serious. The city Im in right now has recently opened up some new parks and they are insanely popular, and have all of the above.

Yes, this board would self destruct at the idea of further suburbanizing downtown...

But it does attract families.

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I'm here to self destruct. Given that Boston increases its park acreage far faster than it increases its number of residences, doing anything to attract people to the Greenway parks from neighborhoods beyond downtown (and where else are they going to come from?) is just going to suck the life out of neighborhood parks. So why are we so intent on making the Greenway a popular park, vs. maintaining activity levels at the others? Because it's a sunk cost?

As for families, jesus. The last thing this city needs are more families waddling down sidewalks. The Freedom Trail is already a big playground, practically. Kids are frolicking in every fountain. The Children's Museum conquered the computer museum, which moved into a Science Museum that has abandoned any pretense of showcasing cool and interesting things about science for the sake of providing more remunerative entertainment for kids. Boston spends shitloads of money replacing the easily stealable Make Way for Ducklings statuettes so kids can pose with them for parents' photo albums. The city looks like a theme park in summer, with duck tours and toy trolley tours circling the giant milk bottle and dropping people off to get in line for the Swan Boats.

The only constituency more catered to is the senior citizen NIMBYs.

More infrastructure to get young post-collegiate adults to stick around would be nice, though.
 
^^^
For the life of me, I couldn?t figure out what annoyed me most about this city. Now I know: it?s all those damned families.

Absolutely, why in the world would the city invest in public art to celebrate an award winning children?s book? We all know that young adults pay homage to public art much better than families?and their audacity to take pictures! I remarked to my young adult colleague as we walked by the bronze ducks, ?How banal ? all those happy tots. And there they are in line at the Swan Boats too! Shame?I was going to spring for a ride for the two of us??

And, man oh man, do they clutter up the Freedom Trail or what? That?s valuable sidewalk space that young adults need for texting. I was talking to the owner of Mike?s Pastry the other day; he was saying the same thing. He would much rather install wi-fi and have a a few young adults sit there quietly enjoying a latte after they get out of work, than to have families queuing up outside his door at 10:00 in the morning.

And that noise that children make in those blasted fountains?jeez, can?t our young adults enjoy a few late morning and early afternoon hours to sleep off last night?s bender? And who can get a seat on the Duck Boats these days? It?s like you have to make a reservation two weeks in advance?how inconvenient for all those young adults we should be trying to lure here.

I went to the Common in my hometown of Melrose the other day, and except for the baseball game and the kids in playground and the teens on the basketball court, it was a ghost-town ? the life was sucked right out of our neighborhood park! Now, I know why: everyone was at the Greenway!

Notice to all families: go back to the shopping malls whence you came; your money is not needed here.
Notice to young adults: come to Boston, we?re purging ourselves of all those annoying families and instituting mandatory wi-fi requirements for all businesses.
 
I think the basic idea is that downtown is family friendly enough. Boston doesn't need to do more to attract families than it already does. It's a city, not a theme park, supposedly.

I'm not sure if they were refering to Melrose when they mentioned outer neighborhood parks being neglected. I'm thinking not.
 
czsz said:
I'm here to self destruct. Given that Boston increases its park acreage far faster than it increases its number of residences, doing anything to attract people to the Greenway parks from neighborhoods beyond downtown (and where else are they going to come from?) is just going to suck the life out of neighborhood parks. So why are we so intent on making the Greenway a popular park, vs. maintaining activity levels at the others? Because it's a sunk cost?
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I've been a greenway skeptic for many years, but I think your statement is a bit of an overreaction. My family went to Spectacle Island on Sunday, and we had about an hour to wait from when we bought ferry tickets to when the ferry left. The area bounded by Long Wharf, Columbus Park, and Quincy Market was a great place to spend that hour. There were lots and lots of people, spilling out of each attraction and out onto the Greenway, which from that location looked like a path that meandered off into the rest of the city. It was an hour spent feeling good about the city I live in, and thinking about how that area is so much better than the Baltimore inner harbor.

I'm not saying it can't be better, but I am confident that it will be, and will also stipulate that it's already pretty good. There are problems as you head away from that area, toward Dewey Square, but in time, that may change.
 
gooseberry said:
I think the basic idea is that downtown is family friendly enough. Boston doesn't need to do more to attract families than it already does. It's a city, not a theme park, supposedly.
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I think cities in general, though, have been moving towards a theme park mentality, as tourism dollars become more and more important. Even the High Line, which I love, I see as theme park-esque, particularly the spot with the bleacher-style seating area from where you look through glass to witness the city scene below. Lots of money comes in from the vacationing families, so I do think we'll see more family-attracting developments in Boston, and particularly along the greenway.
 
HenryAlan said:
I've been a greenway skeptic for many years, but I think your statement is a bit of an overreaction. My family went to Spectacle Island on Sunday, and we had about an hour to wait from when we bought ferry tickets to when the ferry left. The area bounded by Long Wharf, Columbus Park, and Quincy Market was a great place to spend that hour. There were lots and lots of people, spilling out of each attraction and out onto the Greenway, which from that location looked like a path that meandered off into the rest of the city. It was an hour spent feeling good about the city I live in, and thinking about how that area is so much better than the Baltimore inner harbor.
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Just wondering, Henry, what "attractions" are you referring to? Baltimore's Inner Harbor seems to me to be much more densely full of attractions, even if it isn't as pleasant or tasteful. Despite this section of the waterfront hosting the Aquarium, Columbus Park, and nearby Quincy Market (even nearby Hanover Street if you want to extend), I've never felt this area to be cohesive in a way that Baltimore's is... too sparse, too much dead or underutilized space between "attractions."

I'm very glad to hear you had a nice time though!
 
@ Shepard:

That's just it, the attractions were minimal. It was the overall environment that worked. It just had a nice festive look in spite of the minimalist approach to amenities. Contrasting that with Baltimore: the inner harbor is filled with large box destinations (ESPN Zone, a building filled with chain restaurants, etc.) Whereas Baltimore feels artificial (ie it tries too hard), Boston does not.

What I perceived was an open space with views or paths into a variety of urban areas (North End, Quincy Market/Govt. Center, Financial District), an obvious embrace of the sea (Long Wharf, Aquarium Wharf) and a lot of people pausing at the Greenway on the way between these areas. When the park center opens, I think it will further focus the Greenway as a center to all of the other elements. The permanent farmer's market will be yet another spoke that you can move down from that center.
 
Well said, but if you want to see the Greenway in this area as a "central plaza" - a lively, central node - then the major dead spot I see is the ramp parcel by Harmarket. I agree that as you cross from Quincy Market to Long Wharf the area looks great. Look left, however, and glimpse the dead zone, and it all begins to look very flimsy and amorphous. To me, that parcel is an absolute priority. Another benefit of building over that ramp is that between that ramp parcel and the blackstone block, you'd give greater definition to the North End parcels, which are already quite successful but still suffer the same lack of boundaries and views into dead zones.

Even if it's not feasible to build on top of the ramps, can't someone come up with an innovative design that fills the entire footprint around the ramps?
 
Agreed, there are some gaps to fill, but maybe not as many as I had thought.
 
Was there not a proposal to create an all-season (indoor) market at the edge of The Greenway with the food carts, and the specialty food shores in Haymarket/Blackstone moving into the space? But the vendors and shop owners nixed the idea because they'd now have to pay rent, and the unique 'atmosphere' would be lost, yada, yada.....
 
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