Rose Kennedy Greenway

Meadowhawk said:
No, the fountains would be spaced out like on every other parcel. I would like to use filtered water pumped in from the harbor.

Have you considered the implications of using salt water in this sort of application? Not good for pipes and masonry...

Perhaps treated gray-water recycled from one or more Downtown office towers would be a better source...
 
Beton Brut said:
Meadowhawk said:
No, the fountains would be spaced out like on every other parcel. I would like to use filtered water pumped in from the harbor.

Have you considered the implications of using salt water in this sort of application? Not good for pipes and masonry...

Perhaps treated gray-water recycled from one or more Downtown office towers would be a better source...

I remember the beautiful dolphin fountain that was in front of the NE Aquarium before Aquarium officials decided it was too nice and had to be destroyed and replaced with a hideous whatever. That fountain utilized salt water and showed no signs of damage from salt water application.
 
Wow, that Armenian memorial is...a presence. Compare to the understated Holocaust memorial, which takes up maybe a fifth of the space...or the memorial to the 1956 Hungarian uprising in Liberty Square, which sits all but forgotten.

The politics of ethnic memorials in Boston are fascinating. The socialist-realist Irish Famine Memorial on Washington St. gets top outdoor art billing, but the memorial to Polish soldiers was exiled from the Common to, of all places, the viaduct above the wasteland that is the Seaport District (I forget the rationale behind this, something like "the Common is an American space"...reminded me of the "freedom fries" spectacle).

As for the comparison to Millennium Park in Chicago - I think the Chicago park is somewhat busy, packing in too many eclectic monuments in too close proximity with too great a diversity of styles. That said, it's still miles ahead of the Greenway in terms of design and animation. It actually includes some singularly unique features that draw people there - not a succession of stale brick walkways interlacing grass mulligans. The result of a park designed by a collaborative of architects rather than highway engineers, opportunist pols, ethnic boosters and neighborhood NIMBYs.
 
My mistake. Millennium Park is the top tourist destination in Chicago. Chicago was the number ten tourist destination in the country. Sorry 'bout that.
 
Haha. I started an enormous argument just mentioning Millennium Park. All I wanted was the giant mirror-blob.

cloud_gate.jpg
 
^ Would actually look better on the Greenway, reflecting the curve of the streetwall.
 
Millennium Park has a more conventional lot, in terms of both size and shape. Based on multiple visits, I agree that it is a little busy and overdone, it seems like a combo platter, with a little of everything but not enough to really enjoy each.

The Greenway is set up for such a multifaceted arrangement far better, simply because of the natural divisions of roads and highway ramps. I do like the idea of an avenue of fountains, and I actually wouldn't mind a well-placed reflecting pool or two. Boston doesn't really have one, unless you count the Frog Pond, and kids visiting the Aquarium on hot days would love to play in it. They really can't play in a 25-foot water jet.
 
Hello All. Long time lurker, first time poster.

I want to preface this by saying that I find the comments here interesting, though often cranky. The opinions here are usually on target, but they also come off sometimes like the complaining of people who have been excluded from the decision making process. I understand that feeling, as we all know that a very small number of people in Boston actually get to make important decisions on the direction of development in the City. I, like many of you sense a creeping mediocrity that is the product of a Mayor who despite his good intentions lacks the vision and imagination this City could so desperately use.

Now, after seeing the pics of the Greenway and your comments I decided to get on my bike and see for myself what was going on. I rode from Brookline, along the Esplanade, down to the Greenway and finally over to the Seaport. Here the observations I made.

First of all, it was a great day, the Esplanade was not too busy but full of happy people, baby ducks and people with strollers who think they are the only people on the pathway.

The first "new" thing I saw was the new park in front of the Suffolk County Jail. I thought this was a nice addition and I liked that it was more than just a path and trees. The boat dock and views of the old bridges over the Charles made it feel more urban and less suburban.

From that park I cut across the Bulfinch area to the Greenway. I have to say, it was very hard to judge most of the Greenway since you can only look at most of it right now through chain link fences. As I rode along the perimeter, I felt that this is of course a great improvement over the elevated highway, but I also kept telling myself that what I was seeing was not yet what would eventually be built. Most of the parcels looked like they were being built to be temporary parks while Bostonians claw each others eyes out trying to decide what "permanent" structures will eventually take shape there. Some trees, a little bit of pathway. It was nice enough, but obviously this string of little parks is not revolutionary design.

Whether these temporary parks remain that way for 5, 10 or 20 years is the question. But if the shape of the Greenway eventually does mean enclosed greenhouses, cultural museums and some other low rise structures, then I think that most people on this board would be happy. I think the complaints here will be dead on however if these temporary parks become something that we look at for 20 or more years. That would be a disappointment.

From there, I went over the Moakly bridge, which I hated. It looks like a glorified highway overpass. And from there I went down Seaport Blvd. The area is a bit better in person than in pictures, and it being a nice day, everything took on a happy persona. But, let me say this: That mess called the Park Lane is the worst thing I have seen go up in Boston, maybe ever. What a lousy looking bunch of building. Boring, stale, uninviting. Whoever approved that thing should be tarred and feathered in the Boston Common.

On the way back, I rode up the ICA. Very nice I thought except for the mechanicals visible on the roof. Other than that though, this is the kind of thing we could use more of - it looks to the future, not to a past of Limestone and brick. I looked over the Fan Pier area, and I hoped that it would not be populated by more "Park Lane" buildings, god help us.

Overall, I saw a City that is changing quickly and much of it is a vast improvement. But in the end, is improvement enough? Is getting the City a bit more beautiful and welcoming good enough when the potential for greatness is there? Well, to this Bostonian the answer is no. If Boston can't seize this opening for greatness in new civic design, then it will probably not get another chance for decades to come.

Unfortunately, until we get a new Mayor who shares a passion for excitement, risk and imagination, we are likely to see more pre-cast beige buildings, and neighborhoods that boast of little more than cafes, CVS and maybe a tree lined path or two. Those hoping for youthful creativity, edginess and forward thinking design had better hope for new Mayor in their lifetimes.

And In case you are wondering I have no training in design. I'm just an amateur observer.
 
The area is a bit better in person than in pictures

What are you saying about my pictures??!?

Just kidding. Welcome! Post more often. God knows we hear way too much from Patrick.

Unfortunately, until we get a new Mayor who shares a passion for excitement...

2009. It'll be our choice. Menino has stated that he will not run again.
 
castevens said:
2009. It'll be our choice. Menino has stated that he will not run again.
:shock: He has!? That's great! But who will run? What this city needs is somebody who actually has a big city vision. Somebody like Michael Bloomberg.
 
Well before you get your hopes up too high, I thought it was "common knowledge" that he wasn't running next time around. I remember when "Tommy's Tower" was first introduced, a writer commented on how it was his "going away" gift because this was his last term


BUT -- I've been doing some Googling and I can't find anything to suggest that this is his last term. So I probably spoke too soon with that comment.

But whether he runs or not, there will be a Boston Mayoral election in 2009
 
From the Boston Globe in 2005:

Each is looking for the kind of citywide support that could propel a mayoral campaign in 2009, when Mayor Thomas M. Menino is expected to leave the city's highest office.
 
I actually wouldn't mind a well-placed reflecting pool or two. Boston doesn't really have one, unless you count the Frog Pond
The North End Parks on the Greenway will have shallow pools designed for kids (and others) to play in. As for existing reflecting pools in Boston, don't forget the Christian Science Center which has a very large reflecting pool.

An image from the website of one of the designers of the park, Crosby Schlessinger Smallridge, shows one of the pools. As described on the designer's website,
a very abstract reference to the historic Mill Creek, is symbolized by water running parallel with the corridor, bridged by Hanover Street.
Although the design has been refined, the water remains. Here is the image (http://www.cssboston.com/nepks.shtml):

nepks5.jpg


And a plan from the CA/T website shows the location of all the pools (http://www.masspike.com/bigdig/parks/nendpark.html):

nepplan.jpg
 
^ Thanks for that, and those pictures actually make it look quite nice.
 
Reflecting pools are generally really depressing in the winter months (Christian Science Center is desolate at that time of year). There would need be an active use planned for winter time. Ice skating is the obvious solution. That could draw some people if planned for the right park parcel.

I don't think the Greenway is inherently a bad idea. I think as time passes some good ideas will arise for this parcel or that one. Things will be improved gradually. But it's going to be a while before the greenway finds its identity, and I don't think that's a bad thing. Organic, piecemeal development of the park, after they get the rough sketch completed, could turn it into something stunning in 20 years.
 
The oddball structures don't look bad from this angle. Kinda interesting, even. Thought also ludicrously suggestive of Cubist sculptures representing a family of albino penguins.
0706190044S.jpg
 
czsz said:
As for the comparison to Millennium Park in Chicago .... The result of a park designed by a collaborative of architects rather than highway engineers, opportunist pols, ethnic boosters and neighborhood NIMBYs.

Actually, I think Millennium Park is the result of an opportunistic pol, and NIMBYs of a sort, but ones with vision; namely Mayor Daley and business leaders who believe in building a great city. Daley is committed to making Chicago a leader in great urban spaces, and Millennium Park was financed in large part by business leaders and civic institutions that saw an opportunity to make a grand public space. The credit goes to Daley, I think, for getting people with big wallets to see that opportunity. That kind of vision, and leadership, is sorely lacking in Boston, and the result is the Greenway in its current incarnation. To be fair, Menino is not in charge of the Greenway--the Turnpike Authority is--and the the political structures that gives that institution its power are deep-rooted--witness Romney's ineffective attempts to kick it to the curb. Nonetheless, true leadership could have overcome these obstacles. Bloomberg's revitalization of NYC's school system is a testament to what what vision unbeholden to special interests can achieve.
 
The blame in Boston belongs less to Menino, who tried to wrest control of the project, and more to the Turnpike Authority. Vision sometimes means knowing when to step out of the way. The fact that it hasn't has resulted in the most autocentric agency in Massachusetts has assumed the role of micro-managing small, sensitive urban spaces.
 
xec said:
The oddball structures don't look bad from this angle. Kinda interesting, even. Thought also ludicrously suggestive of Cubist sculptures representing a family of albino penguins.
0706190044S.jpg


I have to say I do not like these whatever they are. Will they light up at night? I cannot see anything aesthetic in them or remotely justifying their existence other than to hold a place for something better in the future. I find the whole thing as it is an embarrassment quite frankly. This structure sums up the intelligence, or lack thereof, and lack of vision of the people planning this whole Greenway. Yes, I understand that it is early yet, but why couldn't the Greenway start off with a bang instead of a wimper?
 

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