Rose Kennedy Greenway

Sorry, but this is a completely different site then the Aquarium garage, correct?
Van's picture looks like the same site.
 
Pity those poor developers. Having paid premium prices - that is, way too much - for choice spots on our spectacular new Greenway they now find themselves trying to build to the sky to satisfy their investors' requirements for fat returns.
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They paid premium prices because it's in the middle of the city, where'd you expect to build big and on a park. Why does he complain about them trying to get returns? Is he anti-capitalist or what?

Developer Ori Ron is under growing pressure to rethink his 27-story-and-shrinking tower on the site of the historic Dainty Dot building on the Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy Greenway near Chinatown. International Place developer Don Chiofaro, a man for whom size always matters, is said to be considering as much as 60 stories at his newly acquired garage next to the New England Aquarium. But the most over-the-top example of this build-'em-high Greenway madness comes from Ted Raymond, who is looking for some way to justify the silly $243 million he and his pension fund investors paid for the huge eyesore of a garage at One Congress St.
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Over-the-top??? You mean height befitting the middle of an extremely dense city, the Hub (yeah i know it's overused) of New England? 800 feet is nothing in other cities, towers start at 1,000 ft and that's still considered small.

Raymond is a man not to be outdone. According to several executives and planners who have been briefed on his preliminary plans, Raymond is talking about not one tower, not two, not three, but as many as four towers where the garage now stands and on an adjacent city-owned block. The main tower is projected to be as high as 800 feet, another tower as large as 600 feet, and two other smaller towers would be between 200 and 250 feet, said one of those executives.
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Four "towers". Lol two of them are under 100 m (approx. 300 ft) so I wouldn't consider them "towers". There should be a line of supertalls on both sides of the Greenway, now that will show that it goes right through the center of a city and would actually be a respite and a patch of nature from the crowded Boston urbanity. What's wrong with building more towers in DOWNTOWN Boston? It's where towers are already built and building them at pretty much the same height as other towers doesn't seem to bother me.

While the plan is still preliminary and the drawings Raymond has been shopping are considered "conceptual," he is considering a mixed-use project of residential, office, and retail that would total more than 3 million square feet - or nearly three Prudential Towers, executives say. Parking would likely expand beyond the current 2,300 spaces.
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OK so it's "conceptual" and he has no basis that it's actually his real plans. He's just complaining about development in DOWNTOWN Boston, he just seems like he wants to stop progress.

The good news is nearly everyone who has seen Raymond's trial balloon says it is way too much. Even the mayor, who has rarely seen a big building he doesn't like, is rolling his eyes this time. "He was told this was way too big," said one city official after Raymond met recently with Paul McCann, the Boston Redevelopment Authority's longtime go-to guy. Raymond is to meet with the BRA's new director, John Palmieri, on Jan. 7.
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Obviously means its going to get watered down to one 300 ft "tower".

Among other things, Raymond has explored moving the proposed YMCA from its spot on the Greenway to a prominent location in his adjacent development as a way of creating leverage for taller towers. John Ferrell, chief executive of the YMCA of Greater Boston, said he has met twice with Raymond and is "willing to listen," but is going ahead with his current plan on the Greenway. "We don't see it as an active option for us at this point," Ferrell said.
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I wouldn't agree with this. The Greenway should be for civic buildings only, and putting the YMCA out in a corner of his development will reduce usage of it dramatically. Though if this plan involves building towers in the greenway, I would support wholeheartedly. Just surround them around the YMCA please.

Those involved in the project say the BRA's McCann has suggested Raymond consider buying the adjacent block owned by the city that includes the New Chardon Street police station. If that were to happen, Raymond could expand his current vision to four towers, said one executive. Raymond is considering using the two smaller towers for elderly housing, this executive said. A hotel is also in the mix.
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It's going to get watered down, they'll only build the two smaller "towers" and he's definately not going to be able to buy the block.

Yesterday, Raymond agreed to meet with me on his project, and then backed out. In a statement, spokeswoman Justine Griffin called discussion of the development "premature and speculative. . . . Only early discussions have been held and preliminary guidance sought from the BRA." Raymond's projects have included Trinity Place in Copley Square and Flagship Wharf in the Charlestown Navy Yard; his Turner Hill Golf Club in Ipswich was an artistic success and a financial bust.
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Is he just complaining just because the developer won't meet with him? Sounds like sour grapes to me. If I was a developer, I sure as hell won't want to meet someone who just complains about development with no basis in fact.

All this talk of height and density on the Greenway is being driven less by demand than by the high prices developers paid for these parcels. Take a walk along the Greenway and you will be pleasantly surprised how well it is coming out, starting with the incredible new North End park. After spending $15 billion to get here, the last thing we need is local developers building Manhattan-scale towers to satisfy the needs of institutional investors in Washington, London, and elsewhere.
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Actually it will even be better with skyscrapers lining it. It's the center of the city and taking a nice walk with towers soaring on both sides is cool. Seriously, the height of the tower doesn't really matter to people on the Greenway after about 300 feet, it's just the same and doesn't seem much higher from street level. The height of the tower doesn't matter to the Greenway itself, all that matters is that its used by people and the more people surrounding it in the towers, the more people that will use it (like on their lunch breaks).

The mayor inadvertently opened a Pandora's box when he proposed a 1,000-foot tower in the Financial District. But just because some developers were foolish enough to overpay, doesn't mean we need to be foolish enough to overbuild. The measure of success should not be how much we build, but how well we build it.
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Overbuild. Wow. What does that even mean? The sky stretches to the limit, and the greenway is far from crowded. And at least the mayor cares about developing the city when he proposed the 1,000 footer. He's opening a good Pandora's box since many many developers are trying to develop in Boston, and making the city better. All of the new towers proposed lining the Greenway have good design and are quite glassy, in contrast to the little glass in all the other towers of Boston. Building all of the towers by their original design will improve Boston and the Greenway and help Boston SOAR!!!!!!!!
 
Cojapo said:
Sorry, but this is a completely different site then the Aquarium garage, correct?
Van's picture looks like the same site.
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Looks like the One Congress St. proposal has been superimposed on the Aquarium garage cite to me.
 
don't forget to email or call Steve Bailey and tell him what you think:


Steve Bailey is a Globe columnist. He can be reached at bailey@globe.com or at 617-929-2902.
 
It appears Bailey does not believe in "Build it and they will come" theory. He talks about demand; is he waiting for a day when all the office buldings in Boston are at 100% capacity and people are saying "Hey now we should develop another building"? The is not going to happen!!
 
He has four acres to work with. If he builds 4 buildings, each with a footprint of 30,000 sq ft., that gives 4 mid-size towers averaging 25 stories, and his 3+ million sq ft of new space. The spacing between any two towers would average about 60 feet. Looks blocky to me.
 
How about 2 50 stories towers, same amount of new space and a few acres left for open space?
:)
It's nice to imagine this development, a nicely designed highrise on the aquarium garage, a highrise on city hall, SST and TNA. I know probably one out of these four will end up coming to fruition, one could hope.
 
I wonder if that much retail is needed. Can this be supported? Does this make someplace else irrelevant? ie the Pru, DTX, Newbury st, the proposed waterside place....
 
This is perfect for the greenway, what you need for a urban park is density. The city government is making me throw up with all the nimby b.s.
 
Money is tight -- foreign lenders are worried about lending to Americans (see Columbus Center) and about their reserves (see Morgan Stanley announcing today it had sold part ownership of the firm to a Chinese bank because of Morgan Stanley's subprime losses) as they continue to write-off their subprime tainted paper. Unless Raymond finds or has a deep-seated backer, this is likely to be a fanciful dream.
 
Bailey,

Has a prominent and perversely negative position on nearly all development -- which seems sort of ironic as he is the "Downtown Columnist" on the Globe Business Page

He lives in Cambridge and from what I hear when he is on Finneran's Forum on WRKO in the morning -- he seems reluctant to even drive to Morrissey Boulevard -- calling in from Cambridge

Anyway -- I think its time for the BRA to do some planning on a Boston -- post the Parking Garage and Post City Hall -- this is the ideal location for a ?SuperTall? sitting on the Orange, Blue and Green Lines and with the nexuses of all the T-Lines within at most a few blocks {Red and Silver down Washington Street} ? easy walking distance to North Station, 3 stops on the new and improved Blue Line to Logan, Big Dug ramps to/from Tip?s Tunnel

Bravo to Raymond, the developer -- even without seeing his plans

I'm willing to bet he's got a plan that incorporates the City Hall location as well as the garage.

The old year is ending well -- let's hope that it all continues in 2008

Westy
 
A bit off topic?

I drove {haven?t had a chance to walk much in Boston the past few weeks} -- the Northern end of the Greenway at night recently - -the light panels work quite well from a car -- a bit like the entrance to LAX

Back on topic -- a cluster of 300m-scale towers in a few places {Congress St Garage}, Aquarium Garage, South Station would define the skyline axis of the Greenway and complement the 100 to 2)) towers {Russia Wharf, Intercontinental Hotel, International Place, etc., etc. that will eventually line the Greenway and form the street wall for the Pedestrians.

Westy
 
The North End Parks Taken on Dec 17, 2007

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Spectacular!!

This is why we wanted the Expressway to disappear and to get the Greenway -- You should send it to some calendar company that seems to think Boston only has as summer and autumn except for the Boston Common


Westy
 
Taken on the Same Day This Time Looking Back towards South Station.
Again it is taken from the Observation Deck of 470 Atlantic Ave

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