Rose Kennedy Greenway

nm88 said:
It's a fun riff, either way...

The boat-shaped BOSTON MUSEUM and The Garden Under Glass would have been fine additions.
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I still can't believe we don't have a Boston Museum. It seems like such a "no brainer" to me as a place to consolidate all our wonderful accomplishments, cultures, and people. If we had this, I would take friends and family here to start their visit to Boston EVERY time. I used to ALWAYS start a visit at the old Hancock Observatory because it had a cool view and a great introduction to Colonial Boston History.
 
I've thought about that a lot. The problem is that most of the 'good stuff' is already in the hands of the MFA, Historic Boston or the state archive. It would have to be a collaborative effort between them and I could see that being tough to pull off.
 
statler said:
I've thought about that a lot. The problem is that most of the 'good stuff' is already in the hands of the MFA, Historic Boston or the state archive. It would have to be a collaborative effort between them and I could see that being tough to pull off.
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Can you elaborate why? I've always had the impression that museums, etc. are constantly borrowing each other's stuff on a short to long term basis.
 
xec said:
Can you elaborate why? I've always had the impression that museums, etc. are constantly borrowing each other's stuff on a short to long term basis.
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They could open a museum of loaned objects, but I imagine they would want their own permanent collection as well, which wouldn't be impossible but not easy either. I would love to see it happen either way.
 
Well, the ICA set a precedent as a museum that operated for a long time without a permanent collection. In this case they could start out like the ICA did while at the same time slowly building a permanent collection, so it wouldn't be an either-or situation, but both simultaneously. Having an actual physical museum with substantial public attendance might also encourage donations by smaller institutions and private collectors so their holdings can be seen by a larger audience. A sort of "if you build it, they will donate" situation.
 
statler said:
They could open a museum of loaned objects, but I imagine they would want their own permanent collection as well, which wouldn't be impossible but not easy either. I would love to see it happen either way.
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I think there is SO MUCH untapped material and potential that is NOT already at various museums around town, such as:

  • Showing how much of Boston is landfill and "made land."
  • History of the vast railroad network across Boston and not just the T Green line Subway. Heck, we have the FIRST USA railroad with the Granite Railroad in Quincy nearby.
  • Hall of firsts within the greater Boston area...........such as subway, railroad, public school, telephone, etc. (Dunkin?)
  • History of shipbuilding in the area.........all the way up to WW2 with Charlestown and Hingham
  • Immigration and how it created diverse and unique cultures in the North End, South End, South Boston, Dorchester, etc........and how it continues to this day with restaurants clustered around the city in cultural pockets.
  • The rise and fall from industrial city to decay and rebirth with technology and life science industries
  • I could see a whole area dedicated to the vibrant neighborhoods that tourists may not visit or see............Dorchester, Mattapan, Roxbury, West Roxbury, Jamaican Plain, Allston, Brighton, etc............Boston is so much MORE than Fenway, South End, Back Bay, Bay Village, Beacon Hill, North End, South Boston, and Charlestown that tourists see.
OMG..........I could go on and on and on.................
 
Java King said:
I think there is SO MUCH untapped material and potential that is NOT already at various museums around town, such as:

  • Showing how much of Boston is landfill and "made land."
  • History of the vast railroad network across Boston and not just the T Green line Subway. Heck, we have the FIRST USA railroad with the Granite Railroad in Quincy nearby.
  • Hall of firsts within the greater Boston area...........such as subway, railroad, public school, telephone, etc. (Dunkin?)
  • History of shipbuilding in the area.........all the way up to WW2 with Charlestown and Hingham
  • Immigration and how it created diverse and unique cultures in the North End, South End, South Boston, Dorchester, etc........and how it continues to this day with restaurants clustered around the city in cultural pockets.
  • The rise and fall from industrial city to decay and rebirth with technology and life science industries
  • I could see a whole area dedicated to the vibrant neighborhoods that tourists may not visit or see............Dorchester, Mattapan, Roxbury, West Roxbury, Jamaican Plain, Allston, Brighton, etc............Boston is so much MORE than Fenway, South End, Back Bay, Bay Village, Beacon Hill, North End, South Boston, and Charlestown that tourists see.
OMG..........I could go on and on and on.................
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I have also thought about an intercollegiate museum which makes the most sense to be housed in a municipal/state museum. I'd also love to see the Westend Museum be part of a larger permanent collection.
 
Java King said:
I think there is SO MUCH untapped material and potential that is NOT already at various museums around town, such as:

  • Showing how much of Boston is landfill and "made land."
  • History of the vast railroad network across Boston and not just the T Green line Subway. Heck, we have the FIRST USA railroad with the Granite Railroad in Quincy nearby.
  • Hall of firsts within the greater Boston area...........such as subway, railroad, public school, telephone, etc. (Dunkin?)
  • History of shipbuilding in the area.........all the way up to WW2 with Charlestown and Hingham
  • Immigration and how it created diverse and unique cultures in the North End, South End, South Boston, Dorchester, etc........and how it continues to this day with restaurants clustered around the city in cultural pockets.
  • The rise and fall from industrial city to decay and rebirth with technology and life science industries
  • I could see a whole area dedicated to the vibrant neighborhoods that tourists may not visit or see............Dorchester, Mattapan, Roxbury, West Roxbury, Jamaican Plain, Allston, Brighton, etc............Boston is so much MORE than Fenway, South End, Back Bay, Bay Village, Beacon Hill, North End, South Boston, and Charlestown that tourists see.
OMG..........I could go on and on and on.................
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Love the Hall of Firsts!
I would like that to be our city identity more than anything else. Beyond a ton of other firsts (Similac, anesthesia, fire alarm boxes, robotic surgery, atomic photography, immunization advances, data acceleration, the Middlesex Canal, to name a few), we solidly rocked on firsts in proto-abolition, healthcare, gay rights, anarchy (no monarchs and crown rule means no law temporarily).
THAT is my Boston!
BUT, I could also imagine showing our screwups... and how we OWN OUR MISTAKES with humility and eye on self-improvement. Call it The Ugly Truth. Warts and all.
We could cover redlining, purposeful segregation, 50s highway destruction, urban renewal, race- (not class) based-bussing, four centuries of riots, the Sacco/Vanzetti state murder, suburban subsidization and lack of Home Rule, institutionalization, financial malfeasance, corruption, infrastructural neglect, pollution, patrician overreach, censorship...)
Like in skiing or skateboarding, if you aren't falling and recovering well, you aren't learning.
 
BeyondRevenue said:
Love the Hall of Firsts!
I would like that to be our city identity more than anything else. Beyond a ton of other firsts (Similac, anesthesia, fire alarm boxes, robotic surgery, atomic photography, immunization advances, data acceleration, the Middlesex Canal, to name a few), we solidly rocked on firsts in proto-abolition, healthcare, gay rights, anarchy (no monarchs and crown rule means no law temporarily).
THAT is my Boston!
BUT, I could also imagine showing our screwups... and how we OWN OUR MISTAKES with humility and eye on self-improvement. Call it The Ugly Truth. Warts and all.
We could cover redlining, purposeful segregation, 50s highway destruction, urban renewal, race- (not class) based-bussing, four centuries of riots, the Sacco/Vanzetti state murder, suburban subsidization and lack of Home Rule, institutionalization, financial malfeasance, corruption, infrastructural neglect, pollution, patrician overreach, censorship...)
Like in skiing or skateboarding, if you aren't falling and recovering well, you aren't learning.
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LOVE all the ideas. Urban renewal is a big screw-up that we are still trying to fix! I'm glad you mentioned gay rights too. I recently took a walking tour of Boston Common sponsored by the History Project. Home | The History Project

"The History Project is the only organization focused exclusively on documenting and preserving the history of New England’s LGBTQ communities and sharing that history with LGBTQ individuals, organizations, allies, and the public."

Like so many things, I guess it just takes a good idea and lots of money to make it happen. I was sad when the whole Boston Museum non-profit seemed to dissolve overnight.
 
I want to add that I was at the meeting 15 or so years ago where the Boston Museum Project was proposed for Parcel 12 on the Greenway (the big, insanely cool glass ark proposal).
Moshe Safdie was at the Marriott Long Wharf Meeting hall - in person - to explain his design to the locals. As you may have guessed, they treated him like he had personally dropped a growler on their front stoop, and flamed him, at full screech, about blocked views and "outsiders" and yuppies... and generally were about the most abrasive group of bastards I've ever heard.
Safdie kept his cool and finished his presentation, took a few questions and stepped down. I knew the BMP was dead that night.
I walked up to him afterward and complemented him, his work locally and internationally and apologized for my neighbors.
He said something like an exhaled "It happens." He shrugged, seeming resigned, knowing what he was up against.
Then I talked to the director of the proposed BMP who told me that they basically blew their wad on Safdie and that gorgeous plan. I thanked her.
I sighed and went home.
This is why we can't have nice things.
 
All three proposals were intriguing, as I recall. Architecturally fun.

I remember as a kid going to see the glass flower collection with my grandmother - I think at Babson (?) - and being impressed, even as a youngster. I believe that remarkable collection was intended to be part of the Garden exhibit - though, honestly, I may have all those facts wrong. Quite possibly. Correct me if I do...

What I do remember well, is how the powers-at-be so extolled the future virtues of these parcels.
 
nm88 said:
All three proposals were intriguing, as I recall. Architecturally fun.

I remember as a kid going to see the glass flower collection with my grandmother - I think at Babson (?) - and being impressed, even as a youngster. I believe that remarkable collection was intended to be part of the Garden exhibit - though, honestly, I may have all those facts wrong. Quite possibly. Correct me if I do...

What I do remember well, is how the powers-at-be so extolled the future virtues of these parcels.
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You're probably thinking of the Blaschka collection at the Harvard Museum of Natural History (formerly part of the Peabody Museum, I believe).
 
43 Stillman across greenway in North End. Sign says 2 residential units with 4 floors over parking. Interesting use of the old parking lot but no idea what it will look like
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I don't know how successful the new little North Meadow pocket park is going to be. Accessing it from the rest of the Greenway is interesting. It's separated from the North End parks by an alphabet soup of I-93 ramps. You walk on a narrow little sidewalk along Cross Street past the ramps.

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It not exactly welcoming. Then you have to cross Cross Street. Easy enough. Immediately after, you have to cross North Washington Street, which is six lanes plus a bus stop. Except you can't cross this street in a single crosswalk. No, you cross half the street, then awkwardly walk in the center median for about 75-feet til you then push the signal in order to cross the second half of the street.

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It's embarrassing that the pedestrian experience is this bad. The park itself is fine, except it's tiny and surrounded by wide streets. Six lanes on N. Washington (from which there is really no direct pedestrian crossing), then three lane one way streets on the other two sides. These photos were from this Saturday afternoon and it wasn't really attracting any takers. I'm sure when the landscaping comes in, it will get better, but I can't see it ever being particularly popular. Parts of the Greenway feel more like a conduit to access 93 than a true effort at creating park space and this is a more extreme example.

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Smuttynose said:
I don't know how successful the new little North Meadow pocket park is going to be. Accessing it from the rest of the Greenway is interesting. It's separated from the North End parks by an alphabet soup of I-93 ramps. You walk on a narrow little sidewalk along Cross Street past the ramps.

View attachment 37601

It not exactly welcoming. Then you have to cross Cross Street. Easy enough. Immediately after, you have to cross North Washington Street, which is six lanes plus a bus stop. Except you can't cross this street in a single crosswalk. No, you cross half the street, then awkwardly walk in the center median for about 75-feet til you then push the signal in order to cross the second half of the street.

View attachment 37602View attachment 37603

It's embarrassing that the pedestrian experience is this bad. The park itself is fine, except it's tiny and surrounded by wide streets. Six lanes on N. Washington (from which there is really no direct pedestrian crossing), then three lane one way streets on the other two sides. These photos were from this Saturday afternoon and it wasn't really attracting any takers. I'm sure when the landscaping comes in, it will get better, but I can't see it ever being particularly popular. Parts of the Greenway feel more like a conduit to access 93 than a true effort at creating park space and this is a more extreme example.

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It's a nice place to walk through but not hang out, and I don't think it'll change until the surrounding pedestrian realm improves, as you pointed out.
 
#bancars said:
It's a nice place to walk through but not hang out, and I don't think it'll change until the surrounding pedestrian realm improves, as you pointed out.
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I agree with both of your comments but I'm not sure there's a better alternative. This was one of the unbuildable parcels above the tunnel, right? So it was always going to be open space. They kept it low maintenance and reasonably pleasant.
 
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