Rose Kennedy Greenway

Ron Newman said:
It's well-used in any good weather, it has a popular farmers' market, it has concerts, people like to hang out there, sunbathe, throw frisbees. That's "right" enough for me.
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From a design point of view, you probably could have done most or all of that in any of the previous versions, save the one from my childhood when Huntington connected with Boylston. It is all very timid for fear of not challenging Trinity, the Library, NOSC, even the Copley Plaza.

I forget. Does this version have the lame Kalil Gibran stuff, or was that an earlier one? Weren't or are there some garden gnomes or somesuch?
 
Maybe, but I recall that that people avoided the Brutalistic previous design -- it just wasn't conducive to the kinds of activities people like to do there now.
 
Copley Square also works (kind of) as an unimaginative public space because it's both animated by what's around it and small enough to contain that activity to the point at which it looks busy and active, sometimes. The Greenway has the opposite problem - it's not surrounded by nearly as many active uses, so it can't just absorb their activity with a passive lawn, and even if the edges were more active, that lawn is far too long and vast to be as seriously activated as Copley Square is on good days.
 
Ron Newman said:
Maybe, but I recall that that people avoided the Brutalistic previous design -- it just wasn't conducive to the kinds of activities people like to do there now.
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You are right that it was a harsh space. I think there was one in between that one and what is there now, but I can't keep them straight!
 
czsz said:
Copley Square also works (kind of) as an unimaginative public space because it's both animated by what's around it and small enough to contain that activity to the point at which it looks busy and active, sometimes. The Greenway has the opposite problem - it's not surrounded by nearly as many active uses, so it can't just absorb their activity with a passive lawn, and even if the edges were more active, that lawn is far too long and vast to be as seriously activated as Copley Square is on good days.
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So the real problem is what's around the Greenway and not so much the Greenway itself?
 
I'd put it differently. The Greenway is well suited to what is around it. It is a first class highway median strip.
 
But the solution seems to be to build up the surrounding areas with the right kind of development in order to (planning 101) increase density and create a 24 hour neighborhood. Then we'll see the activation you all have been clamoring for. The North End parks seem to see the level of activity that is acceptable for an urban park.

I agree that the roads need to be toned down a lot.
 
Was in NYC for a long weekend and walked the High Line for a while. The High Line was filled with residents and tourists in spite of the cold, drizzly, miserable weather!! It's so simple, so creative, so amazing, and so completely wonderful with what they did with an old, unused elevated EL! During the planning phase of the Big Dig, there was talk about leaving part of Boston's central artery up, to be reused as an attraction, but I think that idea was immediately blasted out of the water by the neighbors! Oh well, one thing about NYC, it's historically been run by visionaries willing to take a chance! Having said that, Boston is still one of the best, vibrant, most beautiful cities in the country in spite of all the powers and forces that would hold her back!

www.thehighline.org
 
Good architecture attracts people. That's why the highline works (for the most part). I think the idea of the Greenway was a good one, but it wasn't really designed to attract life. It was more a default reaction to how to fill an open space... plant grass, trees, shrubs ... install pavers, a trellis, water feature, with some simple play on geometry ... and people will come? I want to know what happened during the design process..
 
atlantaden said:
Was in NYC for a long weekend and walked the High Line for a while. The High Line was filled with residents and tourists in spite of the cold, drizzly, miserable weather!! It's so simple, so creative, so amazing, and so completely wonderful with what they did with an old, unused elevated EL! During the planning phase of the Big Dig, there was talk about leaving part of Boston's central artery up, to be reused as an attraction, but I think that idea was immediately blasted out of the water by the neighbors! Oh well, one thing about NYC, it's historically been run by visionaries willing to take a chance! Having said that, Boston is still one of the best, vibrant, most beautiful cities in the country in spite of all the powers and forces that would hold her back!

www.thehighline.org
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Riverworks said:
Good architecture attracts people. That's why the highline works (for the most part). I think the idea of the Greenway was a good one, but it wasn't really designed to attract life. It was more a default reaction to how to fill an open space... plant grass, trees, shrubs ... install pavers, a trellis, water feature, with some simple play on geometry ... and people will come? I want to know what happened during the design process..
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Lurker said:
Death...er design by committee.
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A truly depressing trio of posts. Think about it: it's all you need to know about why things nearly always go awry in Boston.

We continue to await the Messiah.
 
atlantaden said:
Was in NYC for a long weekend and walked the High Line for a while. The High Line was filled with residents and tourists in spite of the cold, drizzly, miserable weather!! It's so simple, so creative, so amazing, and so completely wonderful with what they did with an old, unused elevated EL! During the planning phase of the Big Dig, there was talk about leaving part of Boston's central artery up, to be reused as an attraction, but I think that idea was immediately blasted out of the water by the neighbors! Oh well, one thing about NYC, it's historically been run by visionaries willing to take a chance! Having said that, Boston is still one of the best, vibrant, most beautiful cities in the country in spite of all the powers and forces that would hold her back!

www.thehighline.org
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It was also a major public funding project. The Greenway would be just as amazing as the High Line Park, which, by the way, truly is beautiful, if the public donated money as much money to it. The entire issue with The Greenway = $$$!!!
 
ablarc said:
We continue to await the Messiah.
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I doubt any one person, or even group of people, will make a big difference. Lots of individuals continue to try, and they are what keep Boston 'up there,' along with the universities. But for true change to occur, an entire population will need to change their thinking. It's probably quite generational. The trend of 'progressive youth' will hopefully positively affect the city, but it won't happen until the youth grow up. Hopefully the progressive attitude stays intact.
 
callahan said:
It was also a major public funding project. The Greenway would be just as amazing as the High Line Park, which, by the way, truly is beautiful, if the public donated money as much money to it. The entire issue with The Greenway = $$$!!!
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No, it's a question of what to do with the money. Many design committees in Boston would just buy more expensive trellises.

I am sick of this Weston backyard garden approach to the design of everything in the city of Boston. Cute flowerbeds, quaint bricks, faux-coloniana. Wake up! It's like Stepford-in-the-City. I'm sure I've used that upthread as well...

The trend of 'progressive youth' will hopefully positively affect the city, but it won't happen until the youth grow up. Hopefully the progressive attitude stays intact.
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Most of the city's fiercest NIMBYs were once progressives who stood against highway construction and neighborhood demolition. What's progressive one day is reactionary the next.

Imagine a future where arrogant young architects have taken control of the BRA and have presented a radical vision for small, multiuse buildings on winding streets on the current site of the State Services Building. We might be hauling ourselves out of our wheelchairs to save brutalism...
 
That surprises me. Rather pessimistic view. So people really do just get bitter as they get older? Bummer, I always thought that was a Hollywood thing.

Guess we're doomed, then.
 
czsz said:
I am sick of this Weston backyard garden approach to the design of everything in the city of Boston. Cute flowerbeds, quaint bricks, faux-coloniana. Wake up! It's like Stepford-in-the-City.
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It's true for bored residents like us, but isn't this what most visitors expect out of Boston? The well-manicured distinctive Old European-style city?

If this city is too defined by its heritage, too timid, too conservative, isn't it partly because of the way we're defined as a city by the millions of Freedom Trail-following image-makers who pass through our hotels every year - not just because of how we define ourselves?
 
czsz said:
Imagine a future where arrogant young architects have taken control of the BRA and have presented a radical vision for small, multiuse buildings on winding streets on the current site of the State Services Building. We might be hauling ourselves out of our wheelchairs to save brutalism...
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I say rip that sucker down!!! I work near this monstrosity, & sure, I'll admit it's a work of art, but let's memorialize it on YouTube. This thing sucks the life out of the block; it is truly offensive to the pedestrian experience...brutalism is one thing; brutality is entirely different.
 
I walked along the greenway for the first time in a while this evening. A lot of the plantings are really quite nice. There were people playing in the fountain, people playing frisbee in the North End parks, people sitting on the benches. It was a very enjoyable walk. And this was after work on a weekday. When the trees grow out it will be even nicer. The real problem is with the edges, it is all parking garages, service entrances, vent buildings, and the Haymarket bus terminal. I don't know what can be done to fix this in the short term. All on these buildings need to be torn down or drastically renovated. And housing needs to go in their place Also, remember that the ramp parcels are slated for development. Someone needs to get a bunch of restaurants and housing into the ramp parcels ASAP.
 
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