Scarborough, ME

If you have not yet taken the opportunity to explore The Downs in Scarborough I highly recommend doing so. I was in the area yesterday and was highly impressed with what they are creating. Aceto Landscape Architects have done a tremendous job of designing this mixed use development. Especially impressive is the high density residential portion of the project. The apartments, condos and homes though situated quite closely together have been nestled in and amongst the existing woodlands which gives an impression of a more mature neighborhood. The streetscapes and green spaces are thoughtfully planned out and feature extensive plantings that will mature into a beautiful, highly livable environment. Aceto should be hired by the city of Portland to develop a new urban development master plan. Aceto is also the firm that created the plans for the Nightengale (former Mercy Hospital State St. facility). If I were not retired I would be looking to work for Aceto.
: )
 
The only problem with the Downs is that they're held to Scarborough's onerous parking minimums and the Planning Board has been unwilling to budge and allow exceptions. The "Town Center" is going to be surrounded by surface parking lots.
 
Cosakita18 said:
The only problem with the Downs is that they're held to Scarborough's onerous parking minimums and the Planning Board has been unwilling to budge and allow exceptions. The "Town Center" is going to be surrounded by surface parking lots.
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The Town Center could have been Maine's Walnut Creek (CA)....sigh.
 
This development is becoming a HUGE success because of the location, for one, and two, it's focused with housing first, not second. Rock Row has become a de facto bust because it has not. I went to the new Costco on its fringe, and it is spectacular, everything it should be, which is that all products are marked up by only 9%. This means that anything in there, of which they beat down the manufacturers to get the lowest price, will be the lowest that one can find anywhere. It has their always enjoyable tastings stations, and the ridiculously large TVs at ridiculously low prices. It's a misnomer as The Downs are actually the Ups, and it will keep going that way too.

https://www.mainebiz.biz/article/2024-forecast-the-downs-looks-to-transformative-year
 
TC_zoid said:
This development is becoming a HUGE success because of the location, for one, and two, it's focused with housing first, not second. Rock Row has become a de facto bust because it has not. I went to the new Costco on its fringe, and it is spectacular, everything it should be, which is that all products are marked up by only 9%. This means that anything in there, of which they beat down the manufacturers to get the lowest price, will be the lowest that one can find anywhere. It has their always enjoyable tastings stations, and the ridiculously large TVs at ridiculously low prices. It's a misnomer as The Downs are actually the Ups, and it will keep going that way too.

https://www.mainebiz.biz/article/2024-forecast-the-downs-looks-to-transformative-year
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I'm not 100% sold on the location being on the edge of the industrial park, would have rather seen it at the Payne/Haigis intersection. Something else is going in there now, but it would have been on the back side of the "town center"
 
nomc said:
I'm not 100% sold on the location being on the edge of the industrial park, would have rather seen it at the Payne/Haigis intersection. Something else is going in there now, but it would have been on the back side of the "town center"
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It's going to be a damn car dealership....talk about a waste of prime real estate.
 
Hey guys…went down to Costco the other day. Are there any plans to widen Payne Rd between Hannaford and Costco? What is it…1 mile (or less)? Come on Scarborough…the area and traffic is growing quickly! It’s a ridiculous little stretch to travel.
 
mainejeff said:
Hey guys…went down to Costco the other day. Are there any plans to widen Payne Rd between Hannaford and Costco? What is it…1 mile (or less)? Come on Scarborough…the area and traffic is growing quickly! It’s a ridiculous little stretch to travel.
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Ha ha, not unless you wanna raise your gas taxes by a few million dollars!

Westbrook ended up spending a whopping $2.6 million to widen about 400' feet of Clarke Drive last year (see page 52 of this document).

At that rate, a mile-long road widening would cost Scarborough about 1/4th of its entire annual town budget. But it would also saddle taxpayers about $15K-$40K a year in additional plowing and maintenance costs.

And we have extremely robust evidence from past experience that these kinds of traffic subsidies only increase congestion in the long run.
 
cneal said:
Ha ha, not unless you wanna raise your gas taxes by a few million dollars!

Westbrook ended up spending a whopping $2.6 million to widen about 400' feet of Clarke Drive last year (see page 52 of this document).

At that rate, a mile-long road widening would cost Scarborough about 1/4th of its entire annual town budget. But it would also saddle taxpayers about $15K-$40K a year in additional plowing and maintenance costs.

And we have extremely robust evidence from past experience that these kinds of traffic subsidies only increase congestion in the long run.
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LOL.....It's a freakin mile in an already overdeveloped and quickly growing commercial and residential area. But hey if you want everyone to crawl in their gas guzzlers along that stretch spewing air pollution........🤷‍♂️
 
mainejeff said:
LOL.....It's a freakin mile in an already overdeveloped and quickly growing commercial and residential area. But hey if you want everyone to crawl in their gas guzzlers along that stretch spewing air pollution........🤷‍♂️
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Like I said, figure out how to raise $30 or $40 million and you could make it happen! I find it noteworthy that Costco isn't offering to pay for it – kind of seems like it might not be worth the money.

The prices at Costco might be cheap, but they're not nearly cheap enough to justify wasting an hour of my valuable time as an unpaid delivery driver to get there and back again.
 
I've never seen any significant traffic on that section of Payne Road. It might get a bit congested at times but "Traffic" in this case means going 35 instead of the posted 45. Do we need to spend millions of dollars to make sure drivers can shave 30 seconds off a trip between Costco and Target?
 
I am sure that Scarborough would prefer that traffic between the Mall / Wal-Mart area and the Cabela's/Costco area use the Turnpike. The reality is that that stretch of road, from south of Cabela's to the Downs, is essentially the same as it was when my grandfather and I used to drive to the races in the 70's, with narrow lanes and zero shoulders; the only real change has been the removal of the Downs' private exit and it being replaced with the new Exit 42, and the attendant rerouting of Holmes Road and renaming of Bridges Dr. (Quick history lesson: Holmes Rd. used to follow Bridges Dr. to get to Payne Road. The stretch of road between what is now the Holmes/Bridges intersection and Payne Rd., that comes out across from the entrance to The Downs, was unpaved access to the Turnpike Northbound side. Each side of the exit had a single wooden tollbooth with a collector getting cash and handing out the old tickets. You can still see the old ramps on Google Satellite view today.)
 
RE: Scarborough's new town center. I've noticed that in cities with new developments like this many will have a large section of cushioned artificial grass. It's easier upkeep and feels and even looks better. Parents like it because the kids will run around on it to expel some energy. It looks like that is a component here. I would also put in some substantial underground parking (warmer in the winter) so that it can be underneath some residential and thus closer to the areas that are most popular. Big LED signs and lighting is also key. Anything to make it more upbeat and fun. Sections of Congress Street are dying because they feel old and dreary. Maine's winters are getting shorter, so that means outside areas can be used from mid March to November now. It was what, 77 degrees a bit over a week ago? And now it's mid November and in the mid 50s. I'd even heat some concrete ground areas (from encased pex tubing with solar heated water) as that can be used for ten months of the year (at night). If you've ever walked around in your bare or stocking feet on radiant stone floor heating, you will know what I mean (the Jetport addition has this). It also increases the air temperature a bit for a few feet above the ground. Make everything more amenable to comfort for people and control what kinds of retailers come in. Maybe a smaller version of Time Out Market (in Boston near Fenway) would be nice. And yes, Freeport Village Station is a disaster. I so hate that place.
 
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Maine must have the worst business climate in America. Good luck at making Scarborough Town Center a go......everyone claims they want local businesses.....then said local businesses can't seem to attract enough customers or stay open long enough to make it. Limited hours, shoddy service and the whole "we're out of this....we're out of that" litter the Maine retail and dining landscape right now. I've really had it with this state in that regard. Maine is still using COVID as an excuse for everything....gimme a break. Sorry for the tirade....but year after year it's the same old, same old.
 
mainejeff said:
Maine must have the worst business climate in America. Good luck at making Scarborough Town Center a go......everyone claims they want local businesses.....then said local businesses can't seem to attract enough customers or stay open long enough to make it. Limited hours, shoddy service and the whole "we're out of this....we're out of that" litter the Maine retail and dining landscape right now. I've really had it with this state in that regard. Maine is still using COVID as an excuse for everything....gimme a break. Sorry for the tirade....but year after year it's the same old, same old.
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I think part of this is that the Scarborough Town Center doesn't feel integrated or centralized. It's still someplace people have to drive to like it's an isolated vassal state.

It reminds me of Freeport, Cabela's area, Homegoods/Lowes, and even Rock Row. They're not integrated into the fabric of the community, the downtowns, the city centers. People enjoy the walkability of Freeport and perhaps what some of these places COULD BECOME ... but again they're a place you have to go to, not integrated in the communities. Nice to have a swath of grass for the kids and so on, but is the concept sustainable?
 
Scarborough is nearly 50 square miles, settled as decentralized farmland that is gradually turning into single-family neighborhoods. Trying to create anything "integrated into the community" is probably an impossible ask.

Simply put, anyone moving to Scarborough in the first place, except for this specific development, is probably someone embracing a car-centric lifestyle.
 
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