Seaport Neighborhood - Infill and Discussion

[George_Apley]

Again, though, are there any modern global examples of this? If we're reaching back centuries for what we consider aesthetically pleasing urban design then there are strong economic and policy reasons for why "from scratch" neighborhoods develop as they do.

 

[Blackbird]

While that would have been very cool, are there *any* "new neighborhoods" in other cities that have followed the 130-year-old Back Bay model? It just doesn't seem economical with the way muni financing and real estate markets work in the 21st century.

Not to mention the Back Bay and South End are residential neighborhoods. The Seaport was always destined to be more like Fort Point and the FiDi even with residential/hotels mixed in with the offices and labs.

That European city above also seems to show a residential area.

 

[jass]

Again, though, are there any modern global examples of this? If we're reaching back centuries for what we consider aesthetically pleasing urban design then there are strong economic and policy reasons for why "from scratch" neighborhoods develop as they do.

Le Havre, in France is an interesting example. The city was completely destroyed in WW2, so its all new, circa 1950s.

From above, it looks pretty ugly, in that 1950s modern style nobody really likes. But the ground level experience as a pedestrian is pretty good. Much more traditional than the urban renewal stuff in the US. Still a big focus on walking, biking, and small retail. Very limited visible parking.

Streetview examples:

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Had they planted some trees, it would look lovely. Which is one of the things the Seaport has going for it...very high level quality public sidewalk experience. Thats one of the things Boston does a very good job of, compared to other US cities.


Id be curious to learn how this works in the modern context:

Redevelopment of Norrmalm - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Ive never been, so I cant say anything about it.

 

[DZH22]

I dont think uniformity is the issue, so much as the chosen design.

Remove the churches, and you have yourself a very flat and uniform city. And yet it certainly looks nice. Its amazing hat some color can do. I dont know why Boston developers, in a city that spends half the year dark and overcast, insist greys and dark colors.

Wow and they built this whole city in the last 20 years?!?! What a useful, relevant comparison to the Seaport. The faux-historical look really comes across as marvelously authentic. I would have guessed this area was developed hundreds of years ago. Who knew they still construct cities like this today?

 

[jass]

Wow and they built this whole city in the last 20 years?!?! What a useful, relevant comparison to the Seaport. The faux-historical look really comes across as marvelously authentic. I would have guessed this area was developed hundreds of years ago. Who knew they still construct cities like this today?

I will repeat the point for you, since you apparently did not read it:

I dont think uniformity is the issue, so much as the chosen design.

Do you think we lost the technology to paint buildings different colors?

 

[DZH22]

Do you think we lost the technology to paint buildings different colors?

We don't really paint buildings around here anymore. This isn't Miami where we put up the cheapest garbage imaginable and pretend a coat of paint hides the plain concrete designs. I don't think a single seaport building uses paint instead of some type of (usually glassy) cladding.

 

[jass]

We don't really paint buildings around here anymore. This isn't Miami where we put up the cheapest garbage imaginable and pretend a coat of paint hides the plain concrete designs. I don't think a single seaport building uses paint instead of some type of (usually glassy) cladding.

Thats the issue though. Dark glass is nice, but in moderation. The problem is 95% of them are squares with dark glass.

You guys want a brand new, built within the last 10 years, neighborhood with height restrictions and some variety? Here in the US?

Great, we have the Wharf in DC.

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Every building at least looks a little different.

Id sub out some of those dark gray accents with something a little more colorful, but apparently thats what they teach at architecture school these days.

 

[DZH22]

Great, we have the Wharf in DC.

It looks a lot like Boston's "New York Streets" developing neighborhood, doesn't it? Maybe with a touch of Cambridge's North Point (1st building in 1st link, in particular) Also, when I pull into satellite mode, it actually looks like a small isolated island of development, really only a few buildings right along the water.

How "inspiring" this is:
https://www.google.com/maps/@38.883...4!1sFfCcfmXK2gf5MBNIOJQBhw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

By the way, this Seaport photo set by Smuttynose, posted on "Photo of the Day" got a ton of likes and some positive comments. The neighborhood is coming together pretty well, and the "blob" really doesn't all look the same when viewed from up close. My pics, with the evening lighting, showed it duller than it would look under other circumstances. Plus, new buildings such as Amazon and the one across the street from it will add additional colors, claddings, and dimensions to the neighborhood.

Just a few different recent shots from around the Seaport District --

View attachment 6840

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[jass]

It looks a lot like Boston's "New York Streets" developing neighborhood, doesn't it? Maybe with a touch of Cambridge's North Point (1st building in 1st link, in particular)

By the way, this Seaport photo set by Smuttynose, posted on "Photo of the Day" got a ton of likes and some positive comments. The neighborhood is coming together pretty well, and the "blob" really doesn't all look the same when viewed from up close. My pics, with the evening lighting, showed it duller than it would look under other circumstances. Plus, new buildings such as Amazon and the one across the street from it will add additional colors, claddings, and dimensions to the neighborhood.

I think most of us agree that the building on the left here is one of the best ones right? The shape, the layout, the balconies, the contrasting facade elements...all make it interesting. Unlike Mr Goodwin back there that is a giant yawner.

 

[stellarfun]

Wow and they built this whole city in the last 20 years?!?! What a useful, relevant comparison to the Seaport. The faux-historical look really comes across as marvelously authentic. I would have guessed this area was developed hundreds of years ago. Who knew they still construct cities like this today?

That photo is of Zurich, if my memory of Zurich has not failed me. Zurich was not built in 20 years, but over many, many decades.

This is Boulevard Francois 1er, running N-S, in Le Havre.
https://goo.gl/maps/x5rPpiZaLk5oirQk7

This is Avenue Foch, which runs E-W from the water, at the intersection of Boulevard Francois 1er.
https://goo.gl/maps/6repUWCjmD2wU6DD8

Hamburg was even more destroyed (fire-bombed) than Le Havre. You get specimen remnants of the former city.
https://goo.gl/maps/xVVEMuJ9nPtopu2D7

Dresden, also destroyed as much, if not more, than Hamburg, has reconstructed parts of the old city.
https://goo.gl/maps/HFxYwDJ5PwHhrQKK8

Dresden, they reconstructed the church. Everything adjacent is post WWII.
https://goo.gl/maps/8RnxFzbMN3snEJKJ8

 

[jass]

That photo is of Zurich, if my memory of Zurich has not failed me. Zurich was not built in 20 years, but over many, many decades.

This is Boulevard Francois 1er, running N-S, in Le Havre.
https://goo.gl/maps/x5rPpiZaLk5oirQk7

This is Avenue Foch, which runs E-W from the water, at the intersection of Boulevard Francois 1er.
https://goo.gl/maps/6repUWCjmD2wU6DD8

Hamburg was even more destroyed (fire-bombed) than Le Havre. You get specimen remnants of the former city.
https://goo.gl/maps/xVVEMuJ9nPtopu2D7

Dresden, also destroyed as much, if not more, than Hamburg, has reconstructed parts of the old city.
https://goo.gl/maps/HFxYwDJ5PwHhrQKK8

Dresden, they reconstructed the church. Everything adjacent is post WWII.
https://goo.gl/maps/8RnxFzbMN3snEJKJ8

Does anyone know the name of this style?

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Its fairly common in Latin America and I hate it.

 

[stefal]

I think most of us agree that the building on the left here is one of the best ones right? The shape, the layout, the balconies, the contrasting facade elements...all make it interesting. Unlike Mr Goodwin back there that is a giant yawner.

Yes, the Pier 4 condos came out great - especially since they provided some variety and texture to an otherwise smooth and glassy neighborhood. The slight bend, especially from that perspective, is also really good at indicating movement toward the ICA, which during non-pandemic times, is always teeming with activity inside and outside. That Goodwin building is such an insult to Diller + Scofidio's ICA and its other neighbors.

 

[Java King]

Boston's Seaport reminds me of the Docklands in London without the great transportation access. London's Docklands is very corporate, but there is some variation of scale and architecture. As a completely new Urban Center built within the last 25 years, I think it's fairly successful. I had a couple of business meetings a few years ago in the area, and I would go back for a dinner or lunch along the water. It seemed they had some nice outdoor patios and restaurants.

 

[393b40]

Its fairly common in Latin America and I hate it.

Pretty sure that's International Style

 

[Java King]

I think most of us agree that the building on the left here is one of the best ones right? The shape, the layout, the balconies, the contrasting facade elements...all make it interesting. Unlike Mr Goodwin back there that is a giant yawner.

Pier 4 may be better than most of the glass boxes within the Seaport, but I really don't like it. It just seems very awkward to me. I never got over the original render, which I thought was quite nice as a concept, and in my opinion would have been much better as architecture.

 

[stick n move]

More glass... na

Parcel M and the upcoming N and P are about to be a paradigm shift, atleast from inside the neighborhood. Plus those new renders in fort point look wonderful, pray they survive.

 

[stellarfun]

Pretty sure that's International Style

I would agree. Many buildings were built in post-war East Germany in this style. The sheer scale of reconstruction in many German cities meant that aesthetics were sacrificed for speed and economy. These days, It can be a depressing panorama of dreary repetition

 

[Massachoicetts]

I dont think uniformity is the issue, so much as the chosen design.

Remove the churches, and you have yourself a very flat and uniform city. And yet it certainly looks nice. Its amazing hat some color can do. I dont know why Boston developers, in a city that spends half the year dark and overcast, insist greys and dark colors.

Maybe the cost value? Glass sure is cheaper.

But I like what they did with Moxy and Post Office Square. The red outlines in Post Office give it character as the pinks do in Moxy.

Could similar things be done in Seaport down the line. Maybe some brighter colors like Orange or Teal. It's all one full grey color when it's overcast so I fully agree with you here

 

[JeffDowntown]

Isn't a lot of the blandness of the Seaport due to the zoning and intended use?

The big bland boxes are leased corporate offices. They are not trophy buildings with long-term owners, they are space that will flip in 7 to 10 years. Corporate tenants want (*at least wanted) large floor plates with open space. End result is a big, boring box.

The more interesting architecture in the Seaport is residential or institutional, but it is the minority of the intended use. Residential has to vary the aspect ratio to get more rooms situated on the periphery of the building with windows. Not all the residential architecture in the Seaport is good, but it is what provides variation in shape.

 

[shmessy]

I think most of us agree that the building on the left here is one of the best ones right? The shape, the layout, the balconies, the contrasting facade elements...all make it interesting. Unlike Mr Goodwin back there that is a giant yawner.

Actually, the true STAR is the entire bottom 50% of that picture. The pedestrian/ground level area. I am just as guilty as the next poster here about having an "Edifice Complex". The past year or two, I've been re-examining what really makes a city interesting and dynamic. It ain't the boxes.