Seaport Neighborhood - Infill and Discussion
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kennedy
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Re: South Boston Seaport
With no evidence to back me up, I can't really imagine Boston being a competitive commercial shipping or cruise liner port. What I can see Boston being competitive in, is shipbuilding. If, as was mentioned, container ship traffic increases tenfold, there will be a great need for better, newer ships. Or, Boston could follow a less industrial route and build various leisure vessels and smaller passenger ships. I could see the Seaport absorbing a lot of the business taken by Newport, New Bedford, and other smaller coastal cities around New England. Just need a shipbuilder to take that first step...
With no evidence to back me up, I can't really imagine Boston being a competitive commercial shipping or cruise liner port. What I can see Boston being competitive in, is shipbuilding. If, as was mentioned, container ship traffic increases tenfold, there will be a great need for better, newer ships. Or, Boston could follow a less industrial route and build various leisure vessels and smaller passenger ships. I could see the Seaport absorbing a lot of the business taken by Newport, New Bedford, and other smaller coastal cities around New England. Just need a shipbuilder to take that first step...
BostonUrbEx
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Re: South Boston Seaport
I think it would be easier and muuuch cheaper to build up ports for shipping than shipbuilding given current infrastructure.
I can't say I've ever seen a shipbuilding facility for ginormous jumbo cargo ships, but I can't even imagine where we'd put it. What would such a facility even entail?
I think it would be easier and muuuch cheaper to build up ports for shipping than shipbuilding given current infrastructure.
I can't say I've ever seen a shipbuilding facility for ginormous jumbo cargo ships, but I can't even imagine where we'd put it. What would such a facility even entail?
kennedy
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Re: South Boston Seaport
I guess that was a bit farfetched, suggesting a shipyard for assembling container ships. Much more realistically, we could follow up on Menino's dream of being a hotbed of innovation and be the home to various companies building much smaller, custom boats and doing research in various marine systems (an industry that New England as a whole is very strong in).
I guess that was a bit farfetched, suggesting a shipyard for assembling container ships. Much more realistically, we could follow up on Menino's dream of being a hotbed of innovation and be the home to various companies building much smaller, custom boats and doing research in various marine systems (an industry that New England as a whole is very strong in).
czsz
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Re: South Boston Seaport
Holy shit! This is just the economic model Boston needs to compete in the heady future of the 1750s!
Holy shit! This is just the economic model Boston needs to compete in the heady future of the 1750s!
GW2500
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Re: South Boston Seaport
I don't think we really need to compete with other ports. Just tap into this stream a little more. We are closer to Europe than any other major American city. That is reason alone to try to increase capacity. Also with the widening of the Panama canal, this might further open up ports on the east coast to Asian ports. I'd also be fine w/ ship building too. But Boston has been a port since the get go and we should beef it up a bit to ensure it's relavance in the 21st century.
I don't think we really need to compete with other ports. Just tap into this stream a little more. We are closer to Europe than any other major American city. That is reason alone to try to increase capacity. Also with the widening of the Panama canal, this might further open up ports on the east coast to Asian ports. I'd also be fine w/ ship building too. But Boston has been a port since the get go and we should beef it up a bit to ensure it's relavance in the 21st century.
kennedy
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Re: South Boston Seaport
This is what I was getting at with the shipbuilding point, but I guess it's entirely laughable...because it's been done before?
The commerical shipping industry is very different now as opposed to the 1750's. I doubt that Boston is a big enough port to attract a great deal of shipping away from more established ports (Newark, Savannah). Of course, massive expansion and investment could lead to this, but the capital required to do so would be absurd.
Shipbuilding, on the other hand, requires far smaller facilities (custom and small scale, that is). Production can be limited to assembly, as various components are built around the country and (ironically) shipped to Boston. A greater diversity of companies would be able to operate, as well.
I understand that shipbuilding, to some extent, is already an industry in Boston, and that most commercial shipbuilding is done in either Asia or Scandinavia. I do think that shipbuilding is an area that could grow in Boston, especially if an effort was made to centralize the various existing maritime industries in the Greater Boston area.
I don't know what the hell my comment had to do with Morison or why he would be proud.
This is what I was getting at with the shipbuilding point, but I guess it's entirely laughable...because it's been done before?
The commerical shipping industry is very different now as opposed to the 1750's. I doubt that Boston is a big enough port to attract a great deal of shipping away from more established ports (Newark, Savannah). Of course, massive expansion and investment could lead to this, but the capital required to do so would be absurd.
Shipbuilding, on the other hand, requires far smaller facilities (custom and small scale, that is). Production can be limited to assembly, as various components are built around the country and (ironically) shipped to Boston. A greater diversity of companies would be able to operate, as well.
I understand that shipbuilding, to some extent, is already an industry in Boston, and that most commercial shipbuilding is done in either Asia or Scandinavia. I do think that shipbuilding is an area that could grow in Boston, especially if an effort was made to centralize the various existing maritime industries in the Greater Boston area.
I don't know what the hell my comment had to do with Morison or why he would be proud.
Re: South Boston Seaport
^^^ That would sound like a good plan except the market size for new boats/ships right now can best be compared with the market for elective lobotomies. There's another flaw in your logic, cost, why build in Boston what you can build in Korea for half the price?
^^^ That would sound like a good plan except the market size for new boats/ships right now can best be compared with the market for elective lobotomies. There's another flaw in your logic, cost, why build in Boston what you can build in Korea for half the price?
kennedy
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Re: South Boston Seaport
Quality purposes? Skilled labor? I don't know. I'm pretty clueless when it comes to economics, but I figured that the city/state could somehow create an incentive to attract businesses to locate themselves there. Perhaps part of the justification for higher cost would be proximity not only to supplies but to the market?
Quality purposes? Skilled labor? I don't know. I'm pretty clueless when it comes to economics, but I figured that the city/state could somehow create an incentive to attract businesses to locate themselves there. Perhaps part of the justification for higher cost would be proximity not only to supplies but to the market?
palindrome
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Re: South Boston Seaport
Non-military shipbuilding is all but dead in the US.
As a local example, the Quincy shipyard closed in 1986, and the 30 story Goliath crane which was there was sold and transported to Romania 2 years ago.
Boston has a much better chance being a port.
Non-military shipbuilding is all but dead in the US.
As a local example, the Quincy shipyard closed in 1986, and the 30 story Goliath crane which was there was sold and transported to Romania 2 years ago.
Boston has a much better chance being a port.
Re: South Boston Seaport
Hinckley played that card for 75 years, they ceased production last summer and on an island in Maine their costs were nowhere near what they'd be in Massachusetts. I could go on for hours lsiting the various boat manufacturers and shipbuilders New England has lost in the last two decades but frankly it would be too depressing.
As for Boston being a port city, there's potential but it's very limited. We do alright as a container port and could do a a dozen more movements per week but with the high costs of entry the big players like Maersk, CMA CGM, Hapag Lloyd and Hanjin aren't going to bother when they can get in the back way through NYC and then go on to Baltimore and Savannah before heading back to Europe. The car port could sustain another movement or two per week, but again, getting the shipping companies to consider Boston is a hard sell. As for dry cargo, the business I've recently found myself in, Boston isn't even on the map aside from the salt and sand during winter and needless to say, there's not a whole lot of money to be made hauling road salt up and down the coast. The only petroleum business in Boston is heating oil, LNG and jet fuel for Logan and that's well served. I'd say the best bet for Boston in shipping is the cruise industry where I do see a lot of potential to Canada, Bermuda, Bahamas, Caribbean and east coast US.
Hinckley played that card for 75 years, they ceased production last summer and on an island in Maine their costs were nowhere near what they'd be in Massachusetts. I could go on for hours lsiting the various boat manufacturers and shipbuilders New England has lost in the last two decades but frankly it would be too depressing.
As for Boston being a port city, there's potential but it's very limited. We do alright as a container port and could do a a dozen more movements per week but with the high costs of entry the big players like Maersk, CMA CGM, Hapag Lloyd and Hanjin aren't going to bother when they can get in the back way through NYC and then go on to Baltimore and Savannah before heading back to Europe. The car port could sustain another movement or two per week, but again, getting the shipping companies to consider Boston is a hard sell. As for dry cargo, the business I've recently found myself in, Boston isn't even on the map aside from the salt and sand during winter and needless to say, there's not a whole lot of money to be made hauling road salt up and down the coast. The only petroleum business in Boston is heating oil, LNG and jet fuel for Logan and that's well served. I'd say the best bet for Boston in shipping is the cruise industry where I do see a lot of potential to Canada, Bermuda, Bahamas, Caribbean and east coast US.
Re: South Boston Seaport
What I've found so ironic, and more unfortunate than anything, is that Boston (Watertown) has a world class landscape architecture firm responsible for brilliant master plans and waterfront redevelopments in other cities (Charleston Waterfront Park, especially, which is just wonderful), and they are seemingly overlooked or choose not to work within Boston. This is a prime example of Boston ignoring local talent.
They should have developed the Seaport master plan and waterfront park:
http://www.sasaki.com/what/portfolio.cgi?fid=28&project_type=6&page=1
What I've found so ironic, and more unfortunate than anything, is that Boston (Watertown) has a world class landscape architecture firm responsible for brilliant master plans and waterfront redevelopments in other cities (Charleston Waterfront Park, especially, which is just wonderful), and they are seemingly overlooked or choose not to work within Boston. This is a prime example of Boston ignoring local talent.
They should have developed the Seaport master plan and waterfront park:
http://www.sasaki.com/what/portfolio.cgi?fid=28&project_type=6&page=1
Re: South Boston Seaport
Before we Sanctify Sasaki's firm, let's note they were the designers of the widely-disliked, penultimate iteration of Copley Square, and their portfolio resounds with medicrity.
Charleston's Waterfront Park was nice before and it's nice now. No big deal.
Before we Sanctify Sasaki's firm, let's note they were the designers of the widely-disliked, penultimate iteration of Copley Square, and their portfolio resounds with medicrity.
Charleston's Waterfront Park was nice before and it's nice now. No big deal.
SeamusMcFly
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Re: South Boston Seaport
I won't sanctify them, but I do like their work and more the way they work. They have a lot of talented experienced architects who know how to plan ahead. They have not fallen into the autocad trap that many other architects seems to (slap something on a drawing and then rework it 100% 8 times before issuing cd's.) They do a good job of conceptualizing based on the clients needs, and then fine tuning.
Off topic, but I did want to give them props and hope to work with them more often.
I won't sanctify them, but I do like their work and more the way they work. They have a lot of talented experienced architects who know how to plan ahead. They have not fallen into the autocad trap that many other architects seems to (slap something on a drawing and then rework it 100% 8 times before issuing cd's.) They do a good job of conceptualizing based on the clients needs, and then fine tuning.
Off topic, but I did want to give them props and hope to work with them more often.
Re: South Boston Seaport
We must not be talking about the Battery. That's been nice for the decades I can remember.
Re: South Boston Seaport
No, not the Battery. Charleston Waterfront Park is an extension of the French Quarter, Northeast of the Battery. It was a redevelopment which also included much needed apartment units in Charleston proper.
Charleston Waterfront Park (referred to by locals as Pineapple Park) by Sasaki, circa 1990:
No, not the Battery. Charleston Waterfront Park is an extension of the French Quarter, Northeast of the Battery. It was a redevelopment which also included much needed apartment units in Charleston proper.
Charleston Waterfront Park (referred to by locals as Pineapple Park) by Sasaki, circa 1990:
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Re: South Boston Seaport
I'm just gonna say it: Jimmy's is looking a whole lot more interesting that the ICA.
I'm just gonna say it: Jimmy's is looking a whole lot more interesting that the ICA.