Seaport Neighborhood - Infill and Discussion

They just finished putting it up as I walked by.

FPierSign.jpg
 
1621432.jpg

There is so much potential here I hope they don't screw it up
 
My hope is that they realize the mistake of the development so far and try to add SOMETHING for street life. Also Fan Pier will be right next to the new Congress and Summer Sts development so perhaps it will influence the development. I can dream, right? :(
 
JoeGallows said:
They just finished putting it up as I walked by.

FPierSign.jpg
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The only way these three would 'find there way to fan pier' is if they were looking for there cars.
 
Arch21 said:
1621432.jpg

There is so much potential here I hope they don't screw it up
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They're already in process of doing that.

The islands beyond are intriguing. A few deft interventions?
 
BRA deputy has concerns over Seaport retail plans
Boston Business Journal - 2:57 PM EDT Friday, April 27, 2007
by Michelle Hillman
Journal staff


Boston Redevelopment Authority deputy director Richard McGuinness was surprised to learn John Hynes and W/S Development LLC plan 1.5 million square feet of retail in South Boston's Seaport District -- an area with the potential of being over saturated with retail, he says.

McGuinness' comments came during a presentation sponsored by the International Council of Shopping Centers held on Thursday evening where a W/S official mentioned the Seaport Square project is planning 1.5 million square feet of retail space. Seaport Square is being developed by Gale International and Morgan Stanley Real Estate in partnership with W/S Development LLC.

"The 1.5 million square feet new retail and entertainment was new and these are things we need to discuss with them," said McGuinness in a phone interview on Friday.

The panel featured speakers from some of the largest projects planned for the South Boston waterfront. According to McGuinness, who is in charge of waterfront planning for the BRA, a study commissioned a year ago found there was 636,754 square feet of retail "oversupply." He noted that the study, which measured retail demand based on the residential and commercial population, did not factor in people visiting the Boston Convention and Exhibition Center, professionals who live and work in the Financial District -- which is a 10-minute walk from the waterfront -- and people who would drive into Boston from the outer suburbs to shop.

The largest retail development proposed for South Boston is a two-phase project known as Waterside Place and Waterside Crossing. The mammoth mixed-used development is being proposed by the Drew Co. and is slated to include 750,000 square feet of retail space. The project is located across the street from the BCEC.

"There is a possibility there could be too much ground floor retail space," said McGuinness . "There may not be enough demand."



Link
 
Mike said:
"There is a possibility there could be too much ground floor retail space," said McGuinness . "There may not be enough demand."
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Build it and they will come.

But make sure it's interesting enough that they want to come more than once.
 
It needs less shopping and more entertainment. Removing the originally proposed movie theatre makes no sense.
 
i agree with ronny newman... it CLEARLY needs more entertainment...

everybody shits on the waterfront and its well warranted. it needs to attract people for it to be successful. tourists dont know how bad the architecture sucks... they care about what there is to do. it needs clubs... like landsdown. and bars with live music for the 30-40's somethings. small privately owned art galleries. maybe charter boats for fishing? whale watches? harbor cruises? water taxis? parks? which already exist.... it needs a draw and the ICA will benefit and the clubs will benefit from the ICA. this is how this endeavor works..... retail will follow the money. the childrens museum isnt far away... its gotta be a tourist attraction the way its built and then the hotelers can walk out their door and have something to do, especially in the summer.
 
Convention Center

Just wanted to throw this out here on this thread.

I was over at the Convention Center today. I was totally against spending the $800 million to build it, and I think I'm still against the idea.

Having said that, it's an awesome building. It's real purdy on the inside and the views of the rest of the Seaport District / Fort Point Channel area are amazing.
 
Ron Newman said:
It needs less shopping and more entertainment. Removing the originally proposed movie theatre makes no sense.
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Needs less of both (what is planned) and much, much more residential.
 
I was at the presentation discussed in that BBJ article. It was somewhat stunning to hear the BRA say that Gale's development would have too much retail, and the general counsel for Legal Seafoods (which is currently making a killing with its Test Kitchen concept because its one of the only restaurants in the area) also said that there was the likelihood that there would soon be too many restaurants in the Seaport. Right next to downtown and the convention center? And with millions of square feet of residential planned? Whatever. I think the real issue is that Gale's retail will compete with Fallon's retail, and the mayor wants Fallon to win. Perhaps the mayor has good intentions and he just wants to ensure that Fan Pier finally gets built out and succeeds, but the cynic in me thinks the game is rigged. It's worth noting that Fallon's plans for Fan pier is essentially a bunch of tall towers crammed in on a narrow street grid broken up by green space, while Gale's approach seems to be much more of a mix of mid-rise that mirrors the rhythm of the existing Fort Point Channel area. I'm thinking more and more that the lack of vision on the waterfront is a direct result of the mayor's meddling. We complain a lot on this board about NIMBYs, but imagine if this city was led by someone like Bloomberg who was hell-bent on decking over rail yards and highways. We deserve better.
 
The BRA guy makes an excellent point. With just these two projects, that's 2.25 million sq ft. of space.

Size of the Cambridgeside Galleria: 900,000 sq. ft.
Size of the North Shore Mall: 1.7 million sq ft.
Size of the largest Wal-Mart in Massachusetts: 210,000 sq ft. (Its in Leicester)

A Nordstrom or a Bloomingdale's is probably not going to want more than 200,000 square feet. So if you are fortunate enough to get both, that leaves 1.8 million sq ft of space (gross) to still lease. Failing to get those two and/or a JC Penny, you are left with big box stores as your only other option. I don't think conventioneers are going to throng a Target, a BestBuy, or a Bed, Bath, & Beyond.

As a point of comparison, there is a big retail complex just across the river from Washington known as Pentagon City & Pentagon Row. (Its named after the adjacent 6.5 million sq ft (gross) building.) The anchor stores are Macy's and Nordstrom. The square footage of Pentagon City & Pentagon Row is 2 million square feet, and there is another 400,000 square feet or retail nearby. Besides having a subway station (with different lines) this retail area is surrounded by 14 million sq ft of non-government-owned office space, 10,500+ housing units, and 5,500 hotel rooms. There is, however, no convention center.
http://www.arlingtonvirginiausa.com/index.cfm/6223

And yes, its pre-cast city .
 
Whatever observations and concern may be expressed about excessive retail space, I'm all for the marketplace straightening this matter out over time. The Back Bay, which was almost exclusively residential at first, save for institutions such as MIT, the BPL and a lot of churches, has evolved over time to include much more retail than would have been expected at first. Newbury St. was built originally for residences.
 
Stellarfun--I realize it is useful to compare the proposed amount of retail to shopping malls because it is easy to peg their size, but that's apples and oranges. Aside from Waterside Place (which I wish would be given a long walk off one of the shorter piers in the area), none of the proposed retail that I am aware of is a mall. It is all ground-floor retail in mixed-use buildings. Would you say there's too much retail n Chinatown?
 
BRA's been pontificating about too much retail for decades. Now they've been joined by Vivian Li.

Doom and gloom: everyone will go broke.

Let the investors worry about that, guys and gals.
 
^uggg, they did park lane seaport. that one bad design ruined a lot of the waterfront. :(
 
That looks like a really nice design...is that Fan Pier? I wish there were more pictures and you could see them larger.
 
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