Seaport Neighborhood - Infill and Discussion

RFP

I just looked at it again...the RFP actually states in its first requirement that the site must be a minimum of five acres.
 
This should not be located on Fan Pier or anywhere else in Boston. Put it in Framingham, or better yet, outside Massachusetts entirely. (Has the FBI ever done anything beneficial for our state?)
 
The fact that Fallon is even considering the FBI as a potential tenant only helps confirm my suspicion that Fan Pier is in very, very bad hands.

If the FBI has to have a place in Boston, why not move them into the Hurley Building. It would be the perfect fit. It would be nice to see that building restored and renovated as part of the deal, as well.
 
I remember reading a couple of years ago about the FBI building their own skyscraper in Los Angeles. How come a city like that has a place for the FBI but you guys don't think Boston does. If your worried about terrorism Los Angeles is one of the top cities in the United States as a target and Boston is like 40 right above Omaha. The other reason you guys don't want it there is because of the amount of space it will need for security reasons Id rather that there than a bunch of condos. all i read about is how many condos and hotels are being built. We need for this city to be known for some other things other than its condos and hotels.
 
First of all, who is anyone to predict who or where the terrorists are likely to attack. they could poison the potato crop in Boise Idaho, or Aroostook (spelled horribly wrong) County, Maine next for all we know. Saying that Boston ranks 40 on the list is still saying that there are thousands of other cities and towns less likely to be attacked anyway.

Second, there were a few partially joking comments about keeping it out of Massachusetts, but the majority of them weren't debating whether or not it should be in MA; they were debating WHERE in the city. Placing a structure with the kinds of restrictions that an FBI building would require in that type of area (where they are trying to redevelop it and make it a destination) would severely reduce the desirability/ accessibility of the area to the public. the reason for condos and hotels here is simple... people. Hotels bring tourist/ businessmen, and condos bring residents.

The people who are brought to the area, would increase the demand for retail and entertainment in the area which would bring revenue, and make the south boston waterfront a destination for everyone.

an FBI headquarters here would be maximum security and not exactly people friendly. and people friendly is what boston needs. Like everyone said, i think this is better suited for the suburbs. again, it's not a matter of "it SHOULDN'T be in Boston (or Greater Boston)," it's a matter of where the right location is.

For the record, where did you see that they were thinking of making an FBI skyscraper? might as well put a bulls-eye on it in terms of terrorism.
 
I agree with Lrfox completely on the need to bring business and more tourist here to Boston. My point was that we've been building a lot of hotels and condos already in Boston. I mean most of the major companies are in new york city and Chicago because they have those tall skyscrapers and interesting landmarks. if we build an FBI building here and get more high rise office buildings that's whats going to get people and companies to come to Boston. The hotels and condos will fall into place after that. this is just my personal opinion I just think we are going at this wrong. I'm not trying to be rude at all its just my personal opinion. On a final note i was reading a Boston.com article about how Boston doesn't need beacons (skyscrapers) and that we should focus on enhancing our sidewalks and our parks and base our city around that. I was like are you kidding me. if a company was going to choose between Boston and new york city. of course they are going to pick new york city. They aren't going to come here because of our sidewalks and parks.
 
Arch21 said:
My point was that we've been building a lot of hotels and condos already in Boston.
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And yet prices for condos are still rising, as are apartment rents, so apparently we still need more residential units of any/all kinds. Hotels I'm not so sure about.

I mean most of the major companies are in new york city and Chicago because they have those tall skyscrapers and interesting landmarks.
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This sentence is just stupid, and I feel no need to explain why.

if we build an FBI building here and get more high rise office buildings that's whats going to get people and companies to come to Boston.
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An FBI building of under 300k sf that needs 5 acres of land? If this building has about 40k sf floors, that means it will be a whopping 8 stories. How will this, or the FBI in general, attract new office tenants, let alone "get people and companies to come to Boston" ?

Also, you do know that there is a height limit on most (if not all) of the Southie waterfront, correct? There's a reason all the buildings built so far top off at the same height, and it's not the free market holding them to it.

if a company was going to choose between Boston and new york city. of course they are going to pick new york city. They aren't going to come here because of our sidewalks and parks.
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Believe it or not, companies look into something called "quality of life" of the cities they're eyeing, not who just has "those tall skyscrapers." And by any measure Boston competes extremely well in that category.
 
Arch21, I agree with most of what you just said, I think Boston has a huge need for more business and i think an FBI building will help. a lot. my only issue with it was the location. I would personally prefer somewhere other than the waterfront for a maximum security building. Another thing i TOTALLY agree on is the crap you read about boston not needing more "beacons." if you want more open space, move out of the city. I think you'll find that we are not the only two here that share that opinion. Sorry if my previous post seemed aggressive, but i feel strongly about a lot of things in boston (even though i'm actually from 35 minutes south of the city). But i do agree with most of what you just said.

However, I think condos and hotels in this area especially are not bad. in fact, if i were visiting, i'd rather have a hotel room overlooking a nice harbor than one facing a wall of buildings immediatly across the street. Boston should be Boston, not New York.
 
kz1000ps I'm going to try and use small words so you can understand what is going on. Every year companies are leaving Boston and there are no companies coming to Boston. There are papers and reports that show this. All there is going to end up being is a huge amount of empty condos. Regarding quality of life, if trees and parks is what they want then move to Maine.

Believe it or not, companies look into something called "quality of life" of the cities they're eying, not who just has "those tall skyscrapers." And by any measure Boston competes extremely well in that category.

That is pretty much all we have going for us is your so called quality of life. kz1000ps what does Boston have that makes it stand out from other cities? our condos. and I'm not talking about building skyscrapers in South Boston i said Boston i am aware of the height restrictions.
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OK, we all know that there's an overall outflux of businesses, but I don't believe our lack of tall office towers is what is driving them away. Sure we can build them, but my point with bringing up quality-of-life is that we need more than just skyscrapers to attract tenants, which was in response to your comments that seemed to say all we need is big new buildings. ("I mean most of the major companies are in new york city and Chicago because they have those tall skyscrapers and interesting landmarks"). We have plenty of landmarks.

But other than building vig towers that can visually compete with NYC's stock, what do you propose to make Boston better? After all, it's a well known fact that London is drawing tons of companies from NY and over to its city and stock exchange(s), so it can't just be that.
 
Guys, we are know that all the problems that Boston experience, in economy and whatnot, are all because of NIMBYs :wink:
 
Companies look for three things when they decide where to be located: cheap rents, strong economy, and large workforce. Right now, the South fits that formula. Everyone is moving there because of the "nice" weather and cheaper housing. Consequently, many northern cities are suffering (yes, even those with some skyscrapers). Contrary to what you believe, Boston is actually pretty well off. There is a growing demand for office space and the lowest vacancy rate in years, and all of that can be traced to quality of life. People love the human-scale urbanity of Boston, educational resources, abundant greenspace, and high culture. The only thing keeping people from moving here in droves are the outrageous housing costs. Sooo, that brings us back to Fan Pier. If developers continue building condos and apartments, prices will be forced to go down. Eventually, as prices get more affordable, more of the hundreds of thousands of college graduates in the area will decide to stay in Boston. Companies will look to Boston and be willing to pay high rents to tap into the educated labor pool. Then we can build your beloved skyscrapers to house new companies.

While skyscrapers are a plus, they are in no way "the reason" companies move to a city. It's really quite simple: quality of life attracts people, which attract companies. The only thing Boston is missing is cheaper housing.
 
Very well stated, Lexicon. Better than I ever coulda..
 
lexicon506, Boston is not well off. I will give you an example my friend works in the federal reserve building and he said that half the floors in that building are vacant. There is no growing demand in Boston for office space. Boston is trying to create a demand. You could build more of these condos and hope that these jobs/companies eventually come but that is no guarantee. Boston has been building these condominium complexes in and around Boston for years and that still hasn't changed anything. Boston has a very limited amount of land left so they have to be smart with what they do with it.
 
I've seen Boston rise and fall for the past 40 years (I clearly remember the downtown waterfront, complete with stray cats and piles of trash). Sometimes we've lived to regret rapid development (e.g. the West End and Govt. Center). Sometimes we've been relieved that neighborhood groups fought so valiantly (e.g. Park Square as originally proposed). Sometimes we've had to wait a few decades for a mediocre development to become truly grand (e.g. the Pru. Center) and sometimes the details have spoiled long-awaited renovations (e.g. Copley Sq.). Through it all, one issue rarely has been addressed: Massachusetts income taxes. If we are going to build vast new areas of the city and attract businesses and new residents, we will need to loosen up the cash flow of the middle class, who are choking on personal debt and taxes.
 
Arch21 said:
lexicon506, Boston is not well off. I will give you an example my friend works in the federal reserve building and he said that half the floors in that building are vacant. There is no growing demand in Boston for office space. Boston is trying to create a demand. You could build more of these condos and hope that these jobs/companies eventually come but that is no guarantee. Boston has been building these condominium complexes in and around Boston for years and that still hasn't changed anything. Boston has a very limited amount of land left so they have to be smart with what they do with it.
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The Federal Reserve is a government building. You can't compare its vacancy rates to normal office buildings.
 
Correct me if I am wrong, but don't they lease office space to the private sector?
 
ZenZen said:
Correct me if I am wrong, but don't they lease office space to the private sector?
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I'd assume so.

Whenever I read these articles about the office vacancy rates declining I always ask myself if it's for real. Take a walk down Newbury Street and look at how many vacant store fronts there are.

Does anyone remember what it was like circa 2000 when there really was no vacancy in Boston (and all of Eastern Mass for that matter)?

On my end of things (apartment rentals) this is the lowest the market's ever been and I see no light at th end of the tunnel in site. The only thing that will turn things around for the area in the immediate future (short of a nation-wide stimulus) is a regional home-grown sector specific explosion n that would attract people from all over the world.
 
I don't know if I can agree with that ...

"Boston is trying to stimulate demand by building office buildings."
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I don't think that's accurate.

Investors don't lend money to developers because they "hope" to get their money back.

Regarding rentals, I'm not sure the other person's point. Rental vacancy rates must be in the very low single digits - there are more renters than there are apartments, at least in Boston (any part of Boston).

Regarding condos, there is still demand within the city, in every price range, as far as I can tell.

The number of new condos constructed in downtown Boston over the past five years might be well under 5,000 units - easily absorbed, even in a slow market (the Ritz took three years to sell out completely, but would you have expected anything different for something that large & that expensive, in that location?).
 
The Globe said:
Morton's steakhouse opening on waterfront

Morton's The Steakhouse, a Chicago institution, is coming to the Seaport District of South Boston next year.

Morton's Restaurant Group, which owns and operates 74 steakhouse restaurants around the world, said it has signed a lease for its second Boston restaurant in the Seaport World Trade Center East Building near the Boston Convention & Exhibition Center.

"I am delighted to welcome Morton's to the South Boston Waterfront," Mayor Thomas M. Menino said in a statement included in the company's press release. ""Their decision to open a second location in Boston shows a great confidence in our city's economy."
(By Chris Reidy, Globe staff)
Posted by Boston Globe Business Team at 11:04 AM
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Link
 
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