Seaport Square (Formerly McCourt Seaport Parcels)

^^^
I wasn't talking about the progress more just the architecture of the buildings going up in the area.
Nothing of real substance or inspiration for this area yet.

We need an iconic structure built. Something that makes a statement for this area.
 
The problem is too many superblock monstrosities vying to be "iconic" (at least in scale) already.
 
czsz said:
The problem is too many superblock monstrosities vying to be "iconic" (at least in scale) already.
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Hoping something nice will come from the Pier 4 project

the geometry of the pier enforces the slimness of the footprint

The salient nature of the pier pushing out into the harbor with views from all sides -- this could be a fine canvas for a good project

Here's a pdf with some renders of the pier buildings in their surroundings

http://www.nedevelopment.com/portfolio/downloads/Pier4-1211.pdf
 
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Far as I've read from experiences around the world, urban planners are well aware that residential development should not be approved at the end of a pier. Residences should be approved at the foot of the pier or a building set back. Commercial space is fine on a pier.

Residential development on a pier privatizes the most valuable edge of the waterfront as the residents complain about EVERY ACTIVITY.

Boston has learned this lesson over and over and over and over.

And no -- I'm not suggesting the imposition of zoning or regulations that would kill development. Just some critical thinking from SIMPLE observation on the wharves along downtown.

Here's an interesting site.
 
^ Thanks - I do enjoy reading the PPS articles. In terms of waterfronts, I think that this is very useful advice applicable to the Seaport:

Create Multiple-use Destinations by Tapping the Power of 10

Through decades of work, PPS has found that the most effective way to propel a visioning process is to set a goal of creating ten great destinations along a waterfront, an idea we call the “Power of Ten.” This focus on destinations, rather than “open space” or parks, enables a genuine community-led process to take root. Residents, businesses, community organizations and other stakeholders all join in to help identify the key destinations and then define the uses and activities they want to see at each place.

After using the Power of 10 to create great destinations throughout a waterfront, the same principle should be applied at each destination to come up with a list of ten activities for that spot. A wealth of things to do broadens the appeal of the destination, encouraging round-the-clock use.
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So far I count four: the Children's Museum, the ICA, Liberty Wharf and Harpoon Brewery (how I wish they would do more with the footprint though!). Maybe the Fort Point neighborhood could be considered a destination as well for art and culture... not sure if that would count.

I would hesitate to call the convention center a "destination" in the sense that PPS recommends, and I certainly wouldn't include the Courthouse, Fish Pier, most of the industrial park or the BoA pavilion (its use is too occasional and uneven). So the question is, what will differentiate the rest of the Seaport?
 
Sometimes the WTC is a destination. Would the Fan Pier count? It will be an employment center, plus it has the Barking Crab.
 
I don't think employment centers, on their own, count. If we're talking about multi-use destinations we need to ask what lures people who don't work there to this destination. Similarly, what about the WTC lures non-convention goers.
 
I go to the WTC for beer festivals. Or is that considered a convention?
 
Sicilian said:
Far as I've read from experiences around the world, urban planners are well aware that residential development should not be approved at the end of a pier. Residences should be approved at the foot of the pier or a building set back. Commercial space is fine on a pier.

Residential development on a pier privatizes the most valuable edge of the waterfront as the residents complain about EVERY ACTIVITY.

Boston has learned this lesson over and over and over and over.

And no -- I'm not suggesting the imposition of zoning or regulations that would kill development. Just some critical thinking from SIMPLE observation on the wharves along downtown.

Here's an interesting site.
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Not impressed by that pps
After all -- they don't mention Faneuil Hall Quincy Market - Long Wharf and the adjacent NE Aquarium -- that was the quintessential Urban district waterfront re-capture that was promoted by the Late Mayor Kevin White

The substantially earlier development of Storrow Drive would have to qualify as a great urban waterfront as well

the other thing which bothers me is formulas such as 10 places with 10 things -- why not 8 with 8 or 9 with 7 -- when I go somewhere special I don't count the things that I find there nor do I check that place off from my list
 
Shepard said:
I don't think employment centers, on their own, count. If we're talking about multi-use destinations we need to ask what lures people who don't work there to this destination. Similarly, what about the WTC lures non-convention goers.
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Shep -- each year 1.5 Million people go to do something at the Museum of Science -- it has over 450 exhibits -- which 10 do you thing are the ones that lure each visitor -- I dare say that outside of the Omni each visitor has their own personal list
 
^whighlander

We're talking about a waterfront the size of the North End and Financial District COMBINED and you're talking about the Museum of Science.

I'm talking about experience from Long Wharf Marriot privatization (and dozens of other examples) and you're talking about the geometry of the building on Pier 4.

I think we're on different wavelengths.
 
Sicilian said:
^whighlander

We're talking about a waterfront the size of the North End and Financial District COMBINED and you're talking about the Museum of Science.

I'm talking about experience from Long Wharf Marriot privatization (and dozens of other examples) and you're talking about the geometry of the building on Pier 4.

I think we're on different wavelengths.
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Sicil -- No I'm not trying to compare the Waterfront -- whatever exactly that is with the MOS

What I was trying to convey was the idea that formulas are not really useful except for writing term papers or theses. If you think of the MOS as a microcosmic model -- what brings 1.5 M people to the MOS?

well they come for various reasons:
1) some may come once a decade for the "Tall ships" -- i.e. a block buster temporary event
2) some may come once a year for Harborfest -- i.e. a semi repetitive but infrequent event
3) many come for an occasional ration of something -- i.e. whenever a new Omnishow premiers
4) some are just exploring to see what is here
5) a small numbers are "regulars" -- the equivalent of members who come regularly
6) some came with a school group and are now returning on their own

What is most important is that the vast majority find something that resonates with them -- but it is very difficult to know what it will be -- even "no-miss" blockbusters occasionally flop -- while small "almost throwaway things might become "word-of-moth hits"
 
Understood whighlander.

But I think a network of multiple destinations creates the environment for pedestrians to walk from one to the next, and then become engaged with street life along the way. The folks with experience suggest 10, I'm sure the number could vary.

It's possible because Boston is small and walkable that encouraging a walkable pedestrian realm seems like a no-brainer.

But if you walk from Liberty Wharf inland into the vast expanse of Seaport buildings you might agree that the suggestions put forward on that Project for Public Spaces website might have had a positive impact on the success of commercial projects.
 
Sicilian said:
Understood whighlander.

But I think a network of multiple destinations creates the environment for pedestrians to walk from one to the next, and then become engaged with street life along the way. The folks with experience suggest 10, I'm sure the number could vary.

It's possible because Boston is small and walkable that encouraging a walkable pedestrian realm seems like a no-brainer.

But if you walk from Liberty Wharf inland into the vast expanse of Seaport buildings you might agree that the suggestions put forward on that Project for Public Spaces website might have had a positive impact on the success of commercial projects.
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Sicil -- you are on to some points as in fact is the general sense of PPS - But as they say the devil is in the details

I think everyone would love for the SPID to look like some sort of cross between Quincy Market and the middle blocks of Newbury St transposed to the waterfront.

However, I'm not sure that such is realistic --- after all even Newbury St. is adjacent to the much bigger scale Boylston St. and the much more formal Comm Ave. The Back Bay as a whole also includes the far more personal and "private' Marlboro St. and most of Beacon St. as well as a large number of rather anonymous buildings off the major intersections where pedestrians just pass.

Likewise the SPID -- needs to have its version of:

1) a few blocks of "Newbury St." which provides a human-scaled destination for shopping, strolling sidewalk-cafeing
2) complemented by the much bigger scale, muscular "Boylston St." where many destinations are places of employment or of meetings (i.e the Hynes) or resting (i.e. hotels)
3) supported by its residential Marlborough St. and the other residential British Duke blocks
4) and featuring a handful of institutional high points such as BPL, Trinity Church, New Old South, Skywalk & Top of fhe Hub

The Childrens' Museum, ICA, WTC & BCEC, Tea Party Ship & Museum and Harpoon Brewery go a long way toward fulfilling the needs of #4 and the Fan Pier, Courthouse and Seaport Blvd, Northern Ave, D Street and part of Summer St. is a good surrogate tor #2

What should be the emphasis for a lot of the SPID is the anonymous residences of Marlborough St. and the few "really hot blocks" in the middle of Newbury -- although dealing appropriately with the two bits of water on the Fort Point Channel and the Harbor complicate the "mapping" to the Back Bay as a model

Somewhere in the midst of it all -- it would be nice to have a nice dog-walking green strip such as the Commonwealth Ave. mall and one reasonable-size square such as Copley
 
^uhhhh, wasn't there a similiar news article in the Herald about all this new stuff going up last year and the year before that too?
 
tmac9wr said:
Only this time...it's for realz.
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"Hub developer John Hynes and investment partner Morgan Stanley are pushing ahead with concepts for a pair of 20-story residential towers on Seaport Boulevard, with a single-story “innovation center” in between.

“These will all start this year,” said Hynes, the head of Boston Global Investors who is now focusing on Seaport Square after exiting the venture behind the long-delayed Filene’s project downtown earlier this month."

Why the single story innovation center -- that should be in some of the old industrial space -- building innovation centers from scratch is counter productive -- unless your idea of innovation is a bunch of gnerds doing webware

If you want real world innovation companies to fit-in you need spaces that can be hacked and chopped without any concern for the building
 
Is there anyone left who holds out any hope for this area?

Does everyone pretty much agree that it will still be a wasteland even after it is fully built out?
 
I wouldn't be surprised either way. There's tons of activity on the periphery (Atlantic Beer Garden/Whiskey Priest, the ICA, the new Jimmy's, BoA Paviliion, Fort Point Channel). Will people walk through the middle once it's built up? That's a good question.
 
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