Sidewalks in Beantown

[Nexis4jersey]

Why are the sidewalks of Boston so narrow? There half the size of New York's Sidewalk width in the high trafficked areas like Boylston and average suburban size in the non busy areas like near South station... Are there any plans to widen them?

 

[whighlander]

Why are the sidewalks of Boston so narrow? There half the size of New York's Sidewalk width in the high trafficked areas like Boylston and average suburban size in the non busy areas like near South station... Are there any plans to widen them?

Are you a magician?

Where do you get the extra space:
1) narrow the streets for cars and bikes
2) get rid of parking
3) move the buildings

Those are your basic options

PS: I presume you are referring to sidewalks in midtown Manhattan -- then f your figures are right -- then on a sidewalk width scaled to persons/sq ft basis Boston has an excess of sidewalk width compared to NYC

PPS: if you want wide sidewalks in Boston --try:
Commonwealth Ave. in the "Duke blocks"
Dartmouth St
Atlantic and Summer St. near to South Station
Cambridge St. near City Hall Plaza

 

[bbfen]

You don't have to be so pissy.

 

[Semass]

Or, make a wholesale reassessment of what streets are 1 way and what streets are 2 way. I would be willing to bet that the downtown street plan has not been modeled in many years if ever to actually optimize traffic flow. It could be that some 2 way streets would be better off as 1 ways that could handle more vehicles and manage turning better. This could also make room for more sidewalks. Of course, this would cause a city-wide shit fit.

Or, identify areas that have underutilized space on the street side and widen. For instance: in front of buildings on Summer Street between DTX and South Station the sidewalks are way too narrow for the pedestrian traffic. Summer is essentially 1.5 lanes wide and has "no stopping anytime". That doesn't stop anyone from stopping of course, especially limo companies - so traffic is constricted. Expand the sidewalk into that half lane and have one active lane for traffic. Anyone obstructing that lane would likely take a tire iron to the skull from an angry mob.

 

[underground]

Total street area in Boston is narrower than in NYC. It's one of the reasons our density is relatively high, even compared to them (ie, smaller buildings but more of them crammed in with less uninhabited space dedicated to roads). Its a function of NYCs street grid planning vs Boston's general lack-thereof.

 

[Matthew]

There's a lot of places where the sidewalks could be widened and the roadways be narrowed. But then you have to deal with the screaming suburbanites who feel entitled to speed at 50mph on our city streets.

 

[Commuting Boston Student]

Are you a magician?

Where do you get the extra space:
1) narrow the streets for cars and bikes
2) get rid of parking
3) move the buildings

Those are your basic options

PS: I presume you are referring to sidewalks in midtown Manhattan -- then f your figures are right -- then on a sidewalk width scaled to persons/sq ft basis Boston has an excess of sidewalk width compared to NYC

PPS: if you want wide sidewalks in Boston --try:
Commonwealth Ave. in the "Duke blocks"
Dartmouth St
Atlantic and Summer St. near to South Station
Cambridge St. near City Hall Plaza

Price street parking for market parity with garages and I think you'll find it goes away on its own. Then, instead of stupid 'parklets,' we can widen sidewalks.

Or, you know, narrow the streets and crush the bike lanes since 'cyclists' are more than happy to try 'cycling' on sidewalks wherever possible anyway.

Or, make a wholesale reassessment of what streets are 1 way and what streets are 2 way. I would be willing to bet that the downtown street plan has not been modeled in many years if ever to actually optimize traffic flow. It could be that some 2 way streets would be better off as 1 ways that could handle more vehicles and manage turning better. This could also make room for more sidewalks. Of course, this would cause a city-wide shit fit.

Or, identify areas that have underutilized space on the street side and widen. For instance: in front of buildings on Summer Street between DTX and South Station the sidewalks are way too narrow for the pedestrian traffic. Summer is essentially 1.5 lanes wide and has "no stopping anytime". That doesn't stop anyone from stopping of course, especially limo companies - so traffic is constricted. Expand the sidewalk into that half lane and have one active lane for traffic. Anyone obstructing that lane would likely take a tire iron to the skull from an angry mob.

If the mayor announced in advance what color shirt/tie he was wearing tomorrow, there'd be a city-wide shit fit over his choice.

We might as well TRY for an all-modes (roads, rail, air, ped/bike) far reaching overhaul and prepare for battle, accepting that you can't please everyone.

Stay tuned, when I have some free time I'll be back.

 

[Nexis4jersey]

There's a lot of places where the sidewalks could be widened and the roadways be narrowed. But then you have to deal with the screaming suburbanites who feel entitled to speed at 50mph on our city streets.

You would think with a Mayor like Menino whos been there for decades that Boston would have an edge above the suburbs i guess that's not the case?

 

[Commuting Boston Student]

You would think with a Mayor like Menino whos been there for decades that Boston would have an edge above the suburbs i guess that's not the case?

Menino is fond of saying "the era of the car as king is over in Boston."

Unfortunately, what he really means is "welcome to the era of bicycle as king." He has no vision beyond catering to a select group of people at the expense of everyone else. Expect a lot more bicycle infrastructure.

What's that? You're a pedestrian or transit user who doesn't WANT to ride a bike everywhere? Too bad, prepare to take it again - this time for bikes instead of cars!

 

[Matthew]

I find Menino to be rather confusing. He says things like that, but then he also calls for more "greenspace under a new Casey Overpass" which is really weird and clueless.

While it would be a bad idea to cater to bicycles as exclusively as we currently do cars, well, call me when that happens. This ain't Copenhagen.

We put in a few bicycle lanes and some nice things for pedestrians and people start screaming loudly about how horrible and terrible it is, and they are being discriminated against as drivers.

It's completely ridiculous. Any sign of giving help to other transportation modes is taken as the "end of the world." Drivers have worked themselves up into a persecution complex. And they keep moaning about it constantly, and then get upset as soon as you point out that they're whiny little bitches who just got a $22 billion freebie.

Just look at the disgraceful McGrory column in the Globe the other day.

 

[AmericanFolkLegend]

Unfortunately, what he really means is "welcome to the era of bicycle as king." He has no vision beyond catering to a select group of people at the expense of everyone else. Expect a lot more bicycle infrastructure.

That's not really fair CBS. More likely he was going for the "low hanging fruit" (i.e., it's a lot easier and cheaper to paint some bike lanes and roll out a corporate-sponsored bike share than a new transit option - he doesn't even control transit, the state does). And if you're taking cars off the road, presumably you're improving the pedestrian experience (of course that goes out the window if you get tattooed by some hipster bike messenger going 25 on the sidewalk).

 

[Commuting Boston Student]

That's not really fair CBS. More likely he was going for the "low hanging fruit" (i.e., it's a lot easier and cheaper to paint some bike lanes and roll out a corporate-sponsored bike share than a new transit option - he doesn't even control transit, the state does). And if you're taking cars off the road, presumably you're improving the pedestrian experience (of course that goes out the window if you get tattooed by some hipster bike messenger going 25 on the sidewalk).

I'm starting to get the message and move out of the way of Hubway-riding smug jerks on sight instead of expecting them to do the polite thing and veer around the walking pedestrian, only to have to dive to the side to avoid being bowled over once I realize that no, nope, you're really going to try and go THROUGH me.

 

[Justin7]

^ Are you walking in the bike lane? If you're on the sidewalk, is there a bike lane? If not, wouldn't adding one help you out from a safety and convenience standpoint?

 

[F-Line to Dudley]

I find Menino to be rather confusing. He says things like that, but then he also calls for more "greenspace under a new Casey Overpass" which is really weird and clueless.

While it would be a bad idea to cater to bicycles as exclusively as we currently do cars, well, call me when that happens. This ain't Copenhagen.

We put in a few bicycle lanes and some nice things for pedestrians and people start screaming loudly about how horrible and terrible it is, and they are being discriminated against as drivers.

It's completely ridiculous. Any sign of giving help to other transportation modes is taken as the "end of the world." Drivers have worked themselves up into a persecution complex. And they keep moaning about it constantly, and then get upset as soon as you point out that they're whiny little bitches who just got a $22 billion freebie.

Just look at the disgraceful McGrory column in the Globe the other day.

Zero-sum. We see it when Hizzoner goes neighborhood vs. neighborhood too (see his framing of the Casey replacement in terms of JP willfully inconveniencing Hyde Park). He's grown unable to see the mutually-supporting interests here, or his own city as an ecosystem. No...this project is an assault on that mode. That project comes at the expense of greenspace. That project comes at the expense of this other neighborhood, and if that neighborhood has a problem with it it needs to make a case of why its interests should come at the expense of something else.


It's the mentality of a guy who doesn't get out in his own city very much and spends too much time looking at 2D planning maps which, by their 2D nature, shading something one pretty color excludes that thing from being shaded another pretty color. It's a 60's urban renewal planner mindset. His "greenspace" OCD complex and word salad statements like his Casey rant in the JP Gazette are dead giveaways that he's not getting out much. But it fits the pattern of a 2D map mentality when you've got bikes competing conceptually as winners and losers with modes that in functional reality they mutually support.

 

[Commuting Boston Student]

^ Are you walking in the bike lane? If you're on the sidewalk, is there a bike lane? If not, wouldn't adding one help you out from a safety and convenience standpoint?

When you have this narrow 'bike lane' sandwiched between a fast-moving vehicle lane and a row of parked cars, it does the opposite of invite use. People go for the path of least resistance - why have to cut through the 'parking lane' to get to your bike lane when there's a wide, inviting sidewalk right here?

In fact, what SHOULD happen is that the sidewalks be widened and the 'bike lane' either folded into a general purpose bus/commerical/turnout lane OR drawn as a section of the sidewalk on the far left. That is, if you're so committed to a 'bike lane' at all costs.

Vehicle traffic has managed to figure out this system - slower objects to the right, pass on the left, it is the burden of the faster object to pass - and this can work for pedestrians and bikes as well. If you take the bike-exclusive space and add it to the sidewalk, there's more than enough room to have foot traffic which behaves like road traffic, with plenty of room for bikes to move around the pedestrians and plenty of room for comfortable walking.

Or, you know, we can screw pedestrians by keeping the same length or narrowing sidewalks to add a narrow bike reservation which, if anything, helps on-street parking and suburbanite road warriors by creating a barrier to ensure that you don't have to exit into motor traffic (parkers) or worry about people disembarking their vehicles (drivers). That's a better idea because

 

[Lurker]

You are absolutely clueless if you think bikes are the reason for narrow sidewalks in Boston. If you want wider sidewalks, the city would need to get rid of cheap curbside parking for suburbinites visting the city. In case you haven't noticed, the city and state is still gleefully allowing large tracts of land to be occupied by highways so that suburbanites can enjoy all the benefits of the city without living here. Blaming bicyclists, which are typically local residents and far less likely to kill to than the average texting driver, for the lack of pedestrian accommodation in Boston has to be one of the most misguided arguments I've ever heard in my life.

 

[Commuting Boston Student]

You are absolutely clueless if you think bikes are the reason for narrow sidewalks in Boston. If you want wider sidewalks, the city would need to get rid of cheap curbside parking for suburbinites visting the city. In case you haven't noticed, the city and state is still gleefully allowing large tracts of land to be occupied by highways so that suburbanites can enjoy all the benefits of the city without living here. Blaming bicyclists, which are typically local residents and far less likely to kill to than the average texting driver, for the lack of pedestrian accommodation in Boston has to be one of the most misguided arguments I've ever heard in my life.

Getting rid of the curbside parking would be absolutely beneficial, yes. Those 'parking lanes' would be much better served as bus lanes and turning lanes - and, as I've said, it's simple to allow for bikes to use the bus lane, too.

That doesn't mean that the bike-exclusive lane is not a waste of space that would be much better served as a sidewalk extension. Hell, even moving the bike lane to the other side of the 'parking lane' would be a start.

And I would love to see the demographics on Hubway users. I'm betting most of them are not, in fact, locals.

I'm not looking to eradicate biking in Boston, but I want some equity, and I want initiatives to improve the transit experience for everyone, not just one group.

So, yes, I've got a huge problem with the 'Boston Bikes Program' on a conceptual level, and on an execution level. I think it sucks that our political leadership has picked Copenhagen as our 'how-to' model, and every time we lose out on transit improvements because of bikes, it burns me just as bad as when those transit improvements are precluded by road improvements. In fact, it just might burn me more. If that's blaming 'bicyclists,' so be it.

 

[Lurker]

What transit improvements have been lost out to due to bikes? Please also enlighten me to how Boston is acting anywhere near like Copenhagen.

Street design in this city is still overwhelmingly weighted towards cars period.

Regarding Hubway use, it is only a tiny fraction of bicycle use in the city. The vast majority of cyclists in the city are residents or at least residents of the immediate Boston area. (Brookline, Cambridge, Somerville, Watertown)

As far as dedicated bus and turn lanes in place of parking lanes, come visit Washington Street in the South End. You'll see how well that dedicated bus/turn/bike lane works as an illegal parking haven and drag strip. Every long term resident in my neighborhood thinks the Silver Lie is a bad joke, but there are too many idiot businesses/yuppies/drama queens against light rail and no more for a heavy rail subway to replace it.

 

[Ron Newman]

12-15 mph bikes and 3 mph pedestrians are a very bad mix on a city sidewalk. Bikes belong on streets. Bike lanes keep them to the right of faster-moving cars (and, for that matter, allow bikes to pass slower-moving cars easily).

 

[Commuting Boston Student]

What transit improvements have been lost out to due to bikes? Please also enlighten me to how Boston is acting anywhere near like Copenhagen.

Street design in this city is still overwhelmingly weighted towards cars period.

Regarding Hubway use, it is only a tiny fraction of bicycle use in the city. The vast majority of cyclists in the city are residents or at least residents of the immediate Boston area. (Brookline, Cambridge, Somerville, Watertown)

As far as dedicated bus and turn lanes in place of parking lanes, come visit Washington Street in the South End. You'll see how well that dedicated bus/turn/bike lane works as an illegal parking haven and drag strip. Every long term resident in my neighborhood thinks the Silver Lie is a bad joke, but there are too many idiot businesses/yuppies/drama queens against light rail and no more for a heavy rail subway to replace it.

Every time old tracks are converted into a bikeway or 'rail trail' - that's a ROW that becomes difficult to impossible to ever get back for transit. In fairness, I'm willing to accept that some bikeways make for really bad transit corridors - but there are just as many bikeways that could have been put to better use.

And I'm willing to bet that the money sunk into the Hubway program could have been invested into a larger bus fleet instead, which would benefit the city year-round.

Further, all the time and effort sunken into bike advocacy is time taken away from advocacy of other things, like transit. Menino is on the record as saying he wants Boston to be a premiere bicycling city of the world, and that strikes me as desiring to be much more like Copenhagen.

Regarding a visit down Washington Street, I tried riding the Silver Line Washington the other day. It was an actively infuriating experience and I wasn't even on that bus for any other reason than to see for myself how bad it was.

Here's some fun facts: it takes four minutes to walk from Herald Street to Tufts Medical Center, another four minutes to ride the train to Downtown Crossing, and two final minutes to ride to South Station. The same trip on the Silver Line? 16 minutes.

The Silver Line actually hit 11 traffic lights on its journey from Dudley to South Station. I was counting.

I was NOT paying attention to see how respected the bus lane was, but I'll promise you that when I get a chance, I'll venture back down over there and see for myself.