Silver Line - Phase III / BRT in Boston

Re: Silver Line Phase III

The T did plan to use a Tremont St alignment in the original plans. The tunnels would be destroyed, rebuilt for bus service.

This graphic shows all of the alignments considered. (Though the possible loop and platform locations are not displayed)
 
Re: Silver Line Phase III

I like the Orange colored route, except that it should be a branch of the Green Line connecting to the existing abandoned trolley tunnels. This would accomodate a Green Line branch through the South End to Dudley Square.

I like the Green colored route, except that it should be a light rail line connecting to the Green Line tunnel between Charles Street and Arlington Street. This would provide direct light rail transit between the Back Bay, South Station and the South Boston waterfront.
 
Re: Silver Line Phase III

The Silver Line is such a stupid gryphon! It's a forced marriage of elements that simply don't want to go together.

It should be replaced with a Washington Street heavy rail subway to Dudley, a Green Line light rail extension to South Station and beyond to the ends of the present silly subterranean bus line; and they should run a separate, dedicated surface express bus from South Station through the Ted Williams Tunnel to the Airport (and charge maybe eight bucks for the ride).

This is really three separate parts with wholly different missions. Trying to patch these disparate elements into a whole is worse than driving a square peg into a round whole.
 
Re: Silver Line Phase III

Heavy rail to Dudley! The city doesn't care about poor people, they have no clout.
 
Re: Silver Line Phase III

Well, it used to exist as an elevated line. Then they moved it out of where it was useful, partly to please the poor people, who were intensively consulted about the alignment of the present Orange Line.
 
Re: Silver Line Phase III

InTheHood said:
As for SL3 as a whole, I view the portal segment is a total waste, and the "core segment" of marginal utility to help airport and seaport access.
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Something no one really needs. Among other things, airport access via the Blue Line was always the most convenient public transport airport access I?ve ever encountered ?-anywhere in the world. Why spend money to fix what ain't broke? Silver Line to the airport is coals to Newcastle; extending the Blue Line to Charles would have yielded one transfer to Cambridge.

Why this should be prioritized above the Green Line to Medford or the Blue Line to Lynn (or even to Charles Street) or subway-ization of the Fairmount line is baffling ...
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Less baffling when you realize the Feds are pushing BRT, a solution for a low-density suburban place (and not even really that). The money should be better spent in Boston.

I'd much rather see a true subway line to Dudley, but that's a pipe dream.
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Less so if we on this forum make some noise. This issue is much bigger than losing the Shreve building, and there seems to have been some influence on that one.

Time for ArchBoston members to start showing up at these meetings and making noise (I sure would if I were in Boston).

It's amazing that in a pro-public transit city like Boston, the #1 priority has essentially zero public support or much interest. Go to a meeting on the Green Line extension and it's packed to the rafters with Somerville residents asking "when?" ... Why should Roxbury or the South End get excited about a slower bus?
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The bureaucracy has its own version of reality. It has to do with the convenient flow of funds, not transit riders.
 
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Re: Silver Line Phase III

^^ My pitchfork is sharpened and my torch is lit. And I have a 55-gallon drum of vitriol (and a wagon-load of facts) for Grabauskas and his henchmen. Who's with me?
 
Re: Silver Line Phase III

ablarc said:
Well, it used to exist as an elevated line. Then they moved it out of where it was useful, partly to please the poor people, who were intensively consulted about the alignment of the present Orange Line.
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There was a plan for this just after WWII. Replace the Washington Street EL with a subway. It got killed in budget reviews in 1948.
 
Re: Silver Line Phase III

And to be fair, the Orange Line's current alignment is a remnant of an ill-conceived highway project. Putting the Orange Line there was expedient, but not exactly smart, especially in considering that they failed to push the line to a terminus at 128, offering heavy rail service (with subway frequency) from Roslindale to Needham.

Moving the Orange Line away from commercial and population centers is only part of the problem. As long as the community fails to present viable options for dense residential and commercial development adjacent to and over the right-of-way, nothing will improve. The Jackson Square project makes me a bit hopeful, but we need more. As long as community groups in Roxbury fail to see the value in partnering with Northeastern and LMA institutions that need to expand (and are willing to invest in the community, through jobs and educational opportunities) Columbus Avenue will look like the highway that was never built.
 
Re: Silver Line Phase III

cden4 said:
What I wonder is why they don't make the tunnels a "guided busway", so that there is no margin of error for the drivers. They just control the speed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guided_bus

My guess is that MBTA has never heard of such as thing.
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I think the rubber-tire tram in this article would be perfect for the greenway connecting North and South Station. It could just loop, it looks great, has the "novelty factor" of being fairly unique, and it is not Silver Line BRT. Run it along Atlantic and Purchase in a loop with 3 or 4 trams. It would not require rebuilt roads or anything.
 
Re: Silver Line Phase III

^ Even better?:

01.jpg
 
Re: Silver Line Phase III

I don't dislike the idea of a tram along the Greenway. It may even work to run it down Commercial Street and across the bridge into City Square. I recall ablarc suggesting something like this a while back.

But I'm curious -- how do cities in the north of Europe deal with snow on the pathways of these vehicles? Is the right-of-way heated? Do they put brushes on the front of the trams to clear snow and ice? And can the rubes who run Public Works, the Turnpike Authority, and the T be trusted to operate this type of equipment.
 
Re: Silver Line Phase III

While Boston is having so much trouble figuring out how to achieve a continuous route from the western part of the city to the eastern part of the city (Silver Line, Phase 3) I just read this article about London adding a second line to it's transit system to also allow a single ride from one side of the city (west) to the east (their existing Piccadilly Line alreay does this).

Like our Silver line, this one will also connect with a major airport (Heathrow). Unlike our Silver Line, this one will be a real subway (not a bus). Here are the details:

"Crossrail is an exciting and visionary new railway proposal for London and the South-East. It will deliver a world-class, affordable railway, with a high frequency, convenient and accessible train service across the capital from 2017.

The route goes from Maidenhead and Heathrow in the west right across the capital into Essex and Kent in the east. It travels underground through the city centre between Paddington and east London.

Crossrail will make travelling in the area easier and quicker and reduce crowding on London?s transport network. It will operate with main line size trains, carrying more than 1500 passengers in each train. It will deliver substantial economic benefits in London and the South-East and across the UK. The estimated benefit of Crossrail to the UK economy is ?30 billion*."

It's expected to run trains every 2.5 minutes (can you imagine that frequency here?) and will cost, gasp, $60 billion (U.S. dollar equivalent) to build. Unlike most other London Tube lines, this one will be air-conditioned, and train speeds could reach 100 MPH above ground (60 MPH underground).

Here's the link: http://www.crossrail.co.uk/

Construction is expected to begin in 2010 and take 7 years.
 
Re: Silver Line Phase III

The problem is funding. The US doesn't fund mass transit like Europe. BRT is what the feds have had a hard on for for the last 10 years so they are eager to build some projects. Boston understands this reality and is willing to do whatever it takes to get funds. Transportation planners in Boston aren't stupid and this is why SL3 actually has a shot at getting built. They, unlike us on the internet, operate in the real world and in the real world sometimes you have to make compromises.

As much as I detest the Silver Line, my biggest peeve is that there is no long term transportation plan that would have addressed actual travel patterns and new development to and from Roxbury, Downtown, and South Boston. If this was in place I'm sure that a radically expanded Green Line would do the trick.

Oh, and that's another thing that kills me. The Silver Line was dreamt up back before there was this resurgence of Light Rail around the country. It has taken so long to get through all the right hoops that it is an outdated and wrongheaded plan but to start all over will take another 10 years.

Why do we have a shitty bus instead of a world class mass transit line? Because we have a shitty system.
 
Re: Silver Line Phase III

Yeah, and it will take 7 years and has been plagued by delays. While both have had delays and cost overruns, the scale of the two projects are incomperable, and to compare the UK's flagship transit project to our piddling attempt at a transit 'line' probably isn't a right comparison. Plus, the Silver Line, no matter how laughable is in fact more comfortable than most of the tube. Of course with new modern subway systems in Asia (Japan, China, Korea, Singapore, etc...) which combine both comfort and speed, the Silver Line and Crossrail are both left in the dust. By the time Crossrail (or possibly, the Silver Line if it's that slow) is finished an Asian city like Shanghai probably would have completed another 100 miles of true fast comfortable heavy rail subway.
 
Re: Silver Line Phase III

London Crossrail is a great idea, but I've been hearing about it for well over a decade without ground being broken.
 
Re: Silver Line Phase III

The London Tube also costs 4 lbs which = $8 for a ride. So its a give and take. The T is still amazingly affordable for most of the population.
 
Re: Silver Line Phase III

^ Expensive city and continent, weak dollar.
 
Re: Silver Line Phase III

Charlie_mta said:
I like the Green colored route, except that it should be a light rail line connecting to the Green Line tunnel between Charles Street and Arlington Street. This would provide direct light rail transit between the Back Bay, South Station and the South Boston waterfront.
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That's one of the Silver Line's dirty little secrets. The 'original' Silver Lie was ONLY the green loop section, then going to the airport. The Gov't wouldn't fund it because the ridership projections were too low. That's when someone had the idea to connect it to Washington st, then pretend all those people are going to the airport and not downtown, thus inflate the numbers enough to convince the feds to fund it...
 
Re: Silver Line Phase III

johnmcboston said:
That's one of the Silver Line's dirty little secrets. The 'original' Silver Lie was ONLY the green loop section, then going to the airport. The Gov't wouldn't fund it because the ridership projections were too low. That's when someone had the idea to connect it to Washington st, then pretend all those people are going to the airport and not downtown, thus inflate the numbers enough to convince the feds to fund it...
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The Silver Line is rather flawed in several ways (At the end of the day it's just a bus through the South End which is not equal service to the old Orange Line route, plus PhaseI and PhaseII have nothing to do with each other, and it's debatable how much ridership there will be from the South End directly to the airport).

However the dirty little secret got the project funded by the feds and actually got something built. In a sense, it was pretty effective (though flawed)...
 
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