Silver Line to Chelsea

Re: Silver Line to Chelsea (Study Meeting)

The tunnels and stations were designed so that they would not preclude a future conversion to light rail, however there would be a considerable cost to install the rail. There would also be the issue of locating a maintenance facility for light rail cars for an isolated line.

Of course if you connect it on through to the Green Line via Essex street, it is not an isolated line. :)
 
Re: Silver Line to Chelsea (Study Meeting)

What do folks think about the Chelsea Commuter Rail Station being relocated? Isn't it a good thing now that it's right downtown in the densest area?
 
Re: Silver Line to Chelsea (Study Meeting)

But now it will be right next to the economic powerhouse that is Market Basket...

Personally, I'll just be happy if they sync up the local bus routes to when the train goes by. At the current location the 112 seems to go by just after the corresponding inbound train.
 
Re: Silver Line to Chelsea (Study Meeting)

It looks like this Chelsea segment will be the only actual stretch of BRT in the area. (Washington Street is a joke, and the Transitway is hardly rapid with he 10mph tunnel, mode switch, and backtracking half the Transitway on the surface to find the TWT.)

That said, I believe it's still short of what Chelsea deserves, which is rapid rail transit (e.g. tie this into the Green Line via Sullivan). And now by moving the CR station, they've effectively blocked DMU service to Downtown Chelsea.
 
Re: Silver Line to Chelsea (Study Meeting)

What do folks think about the Chelsea Commuter Rail Station being relocated? Isn't it a good thing now that it's right downtown in the densest area?

I think they're trying to turn it into a transfer station for north shore people trying to get to the seaport.

Chelsea residents looking to get downtown will apparently be expected to do a silver-blue transfer.

I don't think that's so bad - taking the CR 'around the horn' was never a great option from chelsea anyway...
 
Re: Silver Line to Chelsea (Study Meeting)

What do folks think about the Chelsea Commuter Rail Station being relocated? Isn't it a good thing now that it's right downtown in the densest area?

Ya. They seemed to move it to an inferior location. I'm assuming it was due to feasibility/cost of having a full-length commuter rail station that wouldn't fit in the small space between Washington Ave. and Arlington St. To have a full length commuter rail stop, they may have had to acquire property east of Washington Ave/widen the Washington Ave bridge and/or eliminated the at-grade crossing of Arlington St/Sixth St, both of which seem like costly options. This is just educated speculation.

Also, the optimist in my says that the Mystic Mall would be a good candidate for TOD.
 
Re: Silver Line to Chelsea (Study Meeting)

Here's another thought I have, for what it's worth. One of the advantages of BRT is that it can use a transitway for fast routing - as this does around, but not into, Downtown Chelsea - but then have the flexibility to run as a more local service on city streets. Why terminate this service at Mystic Mall when it could take the extra 2000 foot jog down Everett Street to loop around Cross/Park/Congress/3rd for a real Downtown Chelsea stop? (Arlington/6th isn't really downtown Chelsea.)
 
Re: Silver Line to Chelsea (Study Meeting)

What do folks think about the Chelsea Commuter Rail Station being relocated? Isn't it a good thing now that it's right downtown in the densest area?

I use the Chelsea CR very rarely to visit friends in Salem. It's hardly used by anyone, despite being so close to the city center/Bellingham Square. Everyone (myself included) piles onto buses to Maverick and Haymarket instead. It is good that they are relocating the CR in order to let the SL station be closer to Bellingham Square. This will help to distribute the loading across all modes, reducing some (not all) of the loading on the buses.

I'm also suuuuuuuper excited about being able to get to Logan wicked easily from Chelsea.
 
Re: Silver Line to Chelsea (Study Meeting)

Why terminate this service at Mystic Mall when it could take the extra 2000 foot jog down Everett Street to loop around Cross/Park/Congress/3rd for a real Downtown Chelsea stop? (Arlington/6th isn't really downtown Chelsea.)

I think that's a great idea - especially if it comes after mystic mall so you don't mess with the attractiveness of a CR transfer
 
Re: Silver Line to Chelsea (Study Meeting)

Here's another thought I have, for what it's worth. One of the advantages of BRT is that it can use a transitway for fast routing - as this does around, but not into, Downtown Chelsea - but then have the flexibility to run as a more local service on city streets. Why terminate this service at Mystic Mall when it could take the extra 2000 foot jog down Everett Street to loop around Cross/Park/Congress/3rd for a real Downtown Chelsea stop? (Arlington/6th isn't really downtown Chelsea.)

Because Connecticut found out the hard way how hard it is to design a signal cycle at a busway + RR crossing permitting turning movements. It took them 2 years of cost overruns on design revisions to get signals that only degraded traffic flow at the Hartford crossings to LOS D instead of LOS F and which didn't risk an articulated bus getting clipped by a passing train mid-turn.

To go off-ROW here would probably require them to eminent domain space for a turnout through Market Basket...the front if they don't mind their driveway being used as a full-time busway, the back if there's access objections. Quite doable, but the Connecticut lesson is that shared legacy rail + bus ROW's are so insanely more difficult to engineer than meets the eye, and chances are they're going to burn equal amount of funding commitment mitigating nasty surprises between Broadway and Everett. CTFasTrak is still making engineering changes in Hartford/West Hartford 2 years after the shovels went into the ground to correct for unintended consequences, so the raw difficulty level of making the modes coexist plays into it even when you strip out ConnDOT's rank incompetence.

The street bus turnout is more something to wait and see on, and keep under wraps until the busway construction has succeeded, than an outright concession at this point. It's simply too early to tell if cost overrun contingencies are going to be needed on the main busway construction, even if by any logic this shouldn't be as difficult a time Broadway-Everett as CTFasTrak is having on the Springfield Line. But that's why it's unwise to count tack-on frills like a turnout in advance. File under "wait and see".


I do think they've got a couple big problems here that make local feeders into the busway unlikely to happen:

1) The insane fact that they are not eliminating one of the two worst grade crossings on the system for this project. The traffic queues @ Everett are already nearly untenable around the gates because of close proximity to the shopping center. This thing already got quadrant gates, advance warning, and lane dividers installed a few years ago because of the acute safety risks at rush hour of cars backed up in traffic getting stuck around the gates. I don't see how you can propose a rapid bus AND eventual DMU frequencies on the Eastern Route without pushing the Everett corridor off the cliff.

1a) How useful are the 112 and 114 truly going to be when they hit the radiating backups in all directions around this sharply busier crossing? I think trying to keep them on-schedule to/from the Transitway while running anything on-street out here is going to be an exercise in futility until they pay for the Everett St. overpass over the ROW that they should've built into the project right up front.

1b) When the city does see how much worse one of the worst crossings gets after start of this service, the amount of mitigation $$$ required after the fact to tame the monster being unleashed is going to put off further route enhancements by several years. Think many blustering City Hall meetings and blue-ribbon "grade crossing task forces" convened. But hey...why build a bridge up-front when you can pay twice as much 10 years later after crying uncle at the pitchfork-wielding mob.

1c) Note that all the speed restrictions that slowly consumed CTFasTrak during its engineering have pretty much gotten Connecticut abandoning most plans to funnel CTransit local buses on/off the busway to streamline routes. It's pretty much just mainline pingbacks now + a noncommittal/unfunded and ever-shrinking set of proposed special-branded routes running extra distance off the busway. Here the Transitway's issues are the inhibitor that makes them a lot less willing to consider feeder routings. As long as it is what it is--slow, unsignaled, with that mangled D St. crossing and "can't get there from here" access to the Ted--they're going to be extremely reluctant to run anything out of there off a dedicated ROW. If there isn't a busway, single-purpose airport driveway, or traffic-restricted haul road to tap on a particular SL# route, they are probably going to shy away.


and...

2) The Silver Line is on subway fare. Run-thru local buses onto a BRT color line can't bureaucratically happen here until there is a half-awake *attempt* at fare flexibility across modes (such as Silver-becomes-Yellow blending). Thus passing up the whole "off-roading" advantage of BRT that got endlessly overhyped when cities were tripping over themselves to propose these things. Purely bureaucratic restriction, and they could run a couple SL# branches out of here covering the north and south spread of Chelsea destinations (but would the headways be the least bit meaningful after branches split?). Fact of the matter is they are institutionally discouraged from offering up better route options by the incompatibilities of Silver Line vs. Yellow Line fare collection. A whole lot of systemwide inertia and brainrot has to get overcome to fix these paper barriers before they do get encouraged to consider obvious flexibilities.
 
Re: Silver Line to Chelsea (Study Meeting)

Why the hell are they paving 30 feet?

Bus = 8 feet
Lane = 11 feet
Total = 22 feet

8 feet of money bags or what?
 
Re: Silver Line to Chelsea (Study Meeting)

Why the hell are they paving 30 feet?

Bus = 8 feet
Lane = 11 feet
Total = 22 feet

8 feet of money bags or what?

4 ft. worth of shoulders spread all-around. This thing doesn't work if it's as constrained and dog-slow as the Transitway tunnel or makes as many wrong assumptions as CTFastrak did about ROW width vs. attainable speeds. That's actually an encouraging bit of applied knowledge that they're not trying to skimp on the shoulders.
 
Re: Silver Line to Chelsea (Study Meeting)

4 ft. worth of shoulders spread all-around. This thing doesn't work if it's as constrained and dog-slow as the Transitway tunnel or makes as many wrong assumptions as CTFastrak did about ROW width vs. attainable speeds. That's actually an encouraging bit of applied knowledge that they're not trying to skimp on the shoulders.

F-Line, slightly off topic, but aren't there guide systems for buses that can steer for a driver in a dedicated right-of-way (like the transit way). Isn't the speed limit there just lack of implementation?
 
Re: Silver Line to Chelsea (Study Meeting)

F-Line, slightly off topic, but aren't there guide systems for buses that can steer for a driver in a dedicated right-of-way (like the transit way). Isn't the speed limit there just lack of implementation?

None good enough to correct for the effects of ice in New England winters. You need the margin of error that comes with shoulders in order to safely operate an extra-cumbersome articulated bus mere feet from speeding trains. That's the takeaway from CTFastrak's mistakes. The fence can't be the only thing stopping a spinout, or else the bus can never be allowed to go fast enough where a spinout has enough force to break or bend the fence. Shoulders and curbs have to blunt the force of it so the fence is fail-safe if struck.

It helps a lot that the shared ROW here is very straight, but we all know from driving in this region that there's nothing straight about gently applying the brakes and suddenly going a little sideways because of an unseen patch of black ice.


If given a choice of one-time designing a busway with correct dimensions and every-time buying Frankenbuses with extra navigational doohickeys on top of the dual-mode Frankenbuses the T already buys, it's always better to just build the damn thing correctly and have the least amount of equipment deviation from the norm. About the only thing I could see here are maybe some more strictly-enforced speed limits than usual so any Larry Leadfoot bus driver doesn't try to make up for schedule time lost in the Seaport or Ted by flooring it here. I wouldn't be surprised if the security cams are tracking speed violations like some of the overpass-mounted cams + radar guns do on the highways.
 
Re: Silver Line to Chelsea (Study Meeting)

Maybe this has been covered, but will this route be electrified?
 
Re: Silver Line to Chelsea (Study Meeting)

Maybe this has been covered, but will this route be electrified?

No. The only reason the Transitway is electrified is to cut the fumes to a minimum by allowing no more than *very* few-and-far-between diesel buses or duals in diesel mode into the tunnel. That was never under consideration for any surface SL or Urban Ring BRT route.
 
Re: Silver Line to Chelsea (Study Meeting)


do-you-eat-confetti.jpg
 
Re: Silver Line to Chelsea (Study Meeting)

$33m for just over 1 mile... that's the initial estimate
 

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