Silver Line to Chelsea

I think the contraflow ends up being "you gotta be a real bus" (not HOV, and ensuring professional drivers most-all of whom are trained and comfortable with being the Contraflow)

But where now the betterbus project is cutting street running to tie riders onto the Blue Line, some of those could switch back to going one-seat to Haymarket.

Also a Silver Line (Gold Line?)
Kendall-North Station-Haymarket-XBL-Airport
MGH-North Station-Haymarket-XBL-BLAirport-Chelsea
 
Two 800-footer full-high side platforms...bog-standard T spec. I don't know what the egresses look like or what (if any...since it's at a grade crossing) interface there is with the adjacent Silver station.
 
The Silver Line is the sollution to ever transportation problem in the state. Why not extend it to Springfield?
 
jass said:
The Silver Line is the sollution to ever transportation problem in the state. Why not extend it to Springfield?
Click to expand...

True Bus Rapid Transit is a great way to add transit to areas at a lower cost and quicker construction than traditional light rail. It can even run shorter headways because there's no need for a signal system. Once ridership gets higher it can be converted to light rail.

It's an absolute shame the MBTA tainted the name bus rapid transit with it's half assed implementation, now people in Boston will always be suspicious of a BRT proposal. I like I fully believe BRT would work great in the Mattapan HSL corridor but it would never get anywhere because BRT is a bad word that means half assed nice buses running in mostly mixed traffic.
 
I also recall F-Line explaining a while back why a spur of the OL won't work out very well. I'll leave them to fill in the details but what I remember, the RL as the closest analogue happens to have a close to perfect balance between the spacings/headways of the trunk line and that of the branches, such that Ashmont and Braintree trains can zipper merge in and out without issue. These conditions would not be met by the orange line.

The Silver Line is a bus with different colors. Extend the Green Line everywhere.
 
cadetcarl said:
The Silver Line is a bus with different colors. Extend the Green Line everywhere.
Click to expand...

I don't trust the MBTA to do Green Line Extensions right either. GLX finally seems on track (after a disastrous start). But Green Line implementation where the Silver Line is today has huge obstacles.

Seaport Busway dead ends at South Station without connecting to the Green Line system ($$$)
Busway ends at D street, forcing grade crossing nightmare ($)
No dedicated tunnel to the airport ($$$)
No dedicated ROW across East Boston ($$)
No dedicated, non-draw crossing of Chelsea River ($$$)

So you have two tiny sections of dedicated busway (Seaport and Chelsea) and a host of looming (big money) obstacles before you could ever consider LRV service.
 
Note that a bunch of the bus proposals here are lightly cribbed from the original, never-finished rollout of Crosstown routes we were supposed to have by 15 years ago.

A variety of new routes were tested, including limited stop service between Everett to downtown Boston, a new Lechmere to Kendall Square shuttle, a new Assembly Square to Lechmere route (Route 92A), and a new CT4 route, connecting the Sullivan Square and Kendall stations.
Click to expand...
Everett currently lacks rapid transit options to Downtown Boston, Kendall Square, and the Seaport district. New bus rapid transit service could provide additional transit access between Everett, Cambridge, Charlestown, and Somerville. This idea would provide two additional routes. One would be a new service from Glendale Square in Everett, which is a major population center in the City, and would connect to North Station via Sullivan Square along Broadway and Rutherford Avenue. The second alignment would build off of the Silver Line (although service may be distinct from the Silver Line) from the Chelsea Station terminus and connect to Kendall Square and North Station, both via Sullivan Square using a combination of streets, dedicated bus lanes, and the commuter rail right-of-way.
Click to expand...
CTx network was supposed to be:

  • CT1 - Central Square (Cambridge) to Andrew Station via Massachusetts Avenue
  • CT2 - Sullivan Square to Ruggles via Union Square (Somerville), Kendall Square and Boston University Bridge
  • CT3 - Longwood Medical Area to Airport Station and terminals via Ruggles, Boston Medical Center, and Ted Williams Tunnel
  • CT4 - Ruggles Station to UMass Boston Campus via Dudley Square and Uphams Corner
  • CT5 - Logan Airport to Sullivan Square via Downtown Chelsea, Wellington, and Assembly Square
  • CT6 - Downtown Chelsea to Kendall/MIT via Community College and Lechmere
  • CT7 - Kendall/MIT to Franklin Park via Mass Ave Bridge, Kenmore, Longwood Medical Area, Ruggles, Dudley, and Grove Hall
  • CT8 - Sullivan Square to Longwood Medical Area via Union Square Somerville, Central Square Cambridge, Cambridgeport, Boston University Bridge, and Fenway Station
  • CT9 - Kenmore to Harvard Square via Commonwealth Ave and Allston
  • CT10 - Kenmore to JFK/UMass via Longwood Medical Area, Ruggles, and Boston Medical Center
  • CT11 - Longwood Medical Area to Fields Corner via Ruggles, Boston Medical Center, and Uphams Corner
  • EC1 - Anderson Regional Transportation Center to MIT at Mass Ave via Sullivan Square, Lechmere, and Kendall
  • EC2 - Riverside to Lechmere via Mass Pike, Central Square, and Kendall
  • EC3 - Natick to Copley Square via Mass Pike

Nothing all that extraordinary in the copy/paste implementation here.
 
cadetcarl said:
I also recall F-Line explaining a while back why a spur of the OL won't work out very well. I'll leave them to fill in the details but what I remember, the RL as the closest analogue happens to have a close to perfect balance between the spacings/headways of the trunk line and that of the branches, such that Ashmont and Braintree trains can zipper merge in and out without issue. These conditions would not be met by the orange line.

The Silver Line is a bus with different colors. Extend the Green Line everywhere.
Click to expand...

Entirely correct.

Also, this proposal somehow thinks they're going to charge all the way up Broadway in a 3.3 mile tunnel for $5B...as if we're actually going to fund that when we won't fund a ⅓ mile Red-Blue tunnel. I would've scoffed at attempts to do an open-air line using the Saugus Branch because the cost of all those grade crossing eliminations would've killed it...but here they ended up reaching for a degree of stupid I never would've anticipated.
 
F-Line to Dudley said:
Entirely correct.

Also, this proposal somehow thinks they're going to charge all the way up Broadway in a 3.3 mile tunnel for $5B...as if we're actually going to fund that when we won't fund a ⅓ mile Red-Blue tunnel. I would've scoffed at attempts to do an open-air line using the Saugus Branch because the cost of all those grade crossing eliminations would've killed it...but here they ended up reaching for a degree of stupid I never would've anticipated.
Click to expand...

Or $3 Billion more for the NSRL. People also don't like BRT because nothing we have even now is actually BRT.
 
JeffDowntown said:
I don't trust the MBTA to do Green Line Extensions right either. GLX finally seems on track (after a disastrous start). But Green Line implementation where the Silver Line is today has huge obstacles.

Seaport Busway dead ends at South Station without connecting to the Green Line system ($$$)
Busway ends at D street, forcing grade crossing nightmare ($)
No dedicated tunnel to the airport ($$$)
No dedicated ROW across East Boston ($$)
No dedicated, non-draw crossing of Chelsea River ($$$)

So you have two tiny sections of dedicated busway (Seaport and Chelsea) and a host of looming (big money) obstacles before you could ever consider LRV service.
Click to expand...

Was LRV ever really the plan? I hear that all the time on these forums but looking at some archives I can't see where it says that... For example this awesome website: http://archive.boston.com/advertisers/bigdig/silver.shtml

"Kibitzing with four satellites in outer space, the Silver Line vehicles change traffic lights to green, in their favor, at the major intersections along Washington Street and explain arrival times to anxious passengers at kiosks along their trip to Chinatown. The buses pass over the Massachusetts Turnpike and disappear under Tremont Street as they dive below one of America's first subway tunnels opened on October 1, 1897 and abandoned on April 6, 1962.

The new Silver Line tunnel, mined under the old one, connects to Boston Common and the Green Line at Boylston Street. Passing beneath the Green Line, the subterranean buses turn right and head for South Station. En route, the Silver Line vehicles pass below the Washington Street Orange Line tunnel built in 1908. Continuing under Boylston/Essex Street the vehicles dive under the six-lane, Dewey Square highway tunnel, now I-93, built in 1959.

Leaving South Station, the buses move under Atlantic Avenue but just barely above the Red Line subway tunnel built in 1916. At Congress Street they veer for South Boston and pass through the historic foundations of Russia Wharf. The Silver Line then uses three prefabricated tunnel sections, called immersed tube tunnels (ITT's), to progress under the Fort Point Channel in Boston Harbor. Each ITT section is 233 feet long and weighs 6160 tons."
Click to expand...

"Using the original 1897 tunnel system to build a new Silver Line tunnel along Tremont Street the MBTA will, in Phase III, connect the Silver Line with the Green Line at Boylston Street. Passengers will also be able to make connections to the Orange and Red Lines as the buses pass under and over the other subways."
Click to expand...

I was under the impression LRV conversion was never really in the plans but people misunderstood "connecting to the green line"
 
HelloBostonHi said:
Was LRV ever really the plan? I hear that all the time on these forums but looking at some archives I can't see where it says that... For example this awesome website: http://archive.boston.com/advertisers/bigdig/silver.shtml

I was under the impression LRV conversion was never really in the plans but people misunderstood "connecting to the green line"
Click to expand...

Our transportation infrastructure is completely "connected" by our sneaker network.

Snark aside, it seems more often than not we neglect our pedestrian infrastructure as something that is just expected to happen even though it has the highest capacity, more resiliency and transports more people than any other system.
 
HelloBostonHi said:
Was LRV ever really the plan? I hear that all the time on these forums but looking at some archives I can't see where it says that... For example this awesome website: http://archive.boston.com/advertisers/bigdig/silver.shtml





I was under the impression LRV conversion was never really in the plans but people misunderstood "connecting to the green line"
Click to expand...

LRT conversion was never on the table because Silver Line Phase III was to connect the halves and make them somewhat useful. The Transitway is built to light rail standards, however. TT tunnel by default is a "superset" of LRT construction-wise.

Phase III proved impossible to build because of surface impacts. It can't physically be done as BRT because there's no way to underpin all structures and punch through a western portal to balance vehicle supply...too many blockers. There is still dire need for a Back Bay connection...but it can only be done off a Green Line connection if at all. Hence, LRT conversion...albeit the only scenario being an acknowledgment of how bad they fucked things up the first time around letting politics stake them to a thing they couldn't build.
 
F-Line to Dudley said:
LRT conversion was never on the table because Silver Line Phase III was to connect the halves and make them somewhat useful. The Transitway is built to light rail standards, however. TT tunnel by default is a "superset" of LRT construction-wise.

Phase III proved impossible to build because of surface impacts. It can't physically be done as BRT because there's no way to underpin all structures and punch through a western portal to balance vehicle supply...too many blockers. There is still dire need for a Back Bay connection...but it can only be done off a Green Line connection if at all. Hence, LRT conversion...albeit the only scenario being an acknowledgment of how bad they fucked things up the first time around letting politics stake them to a thing they couldn't build.
Click to expand...

I believe they did make feasible plans to have phase three work. There was simply opposition based on the modification to the above ground road network necessary and the shocking price tag. But I swear I've seen a variety of plausible options throughout the years.
 
The Silver Line is in no way "rapid" in the Seaport. It crawls in the tunnel, and then does a crazy loop through traffic to get in the tunnel.

Make the tunnel a guided bus-way, allow it to use the "state police" ramp, then give the Silver line a dedicated lane going westbound into the tunnel and then you'd get "Bus Rapid Transit". But the current Silver Line is a sad excuse for BRT.
 
HelloBostonHi said:
I believe they did make feasible plans to have phase three work. There was simply opposition based on the modification to the above ground road network necessary and the shocking price tag. But I swear I've seen a variety of plausible options throughout the years.
Click to expand...

It wasn't feasible, though...because the buses' performance in the tunnel was so horrible that most service in both directions was to be forced to loop at Boylston. Shit grades, shit curves induced by the surface impacts begat shit performance as the design got whittled down, which only exacerbates what's already an issue in the Transitway. Case-in-point: the double-deck Chinatown BRT platforms being a speed killer on the climb while the underpinning of the 1908 Orange platforms induces a cost blowout.

It was not a tunnel worth building at any cost, because it couldn't do its job on any of the available BRT design alternatives. The fact that they kinda sorta found a physical path to the South End that stood a chance of getting a construction permit was immaterial, because the battle to fashion useful transit out of it had already been lost. The extreme price tag was just the cherry on top.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top