Somerville Infill and Small Developments

fattony said:
I have never understood why this hasn't already happened. Does anyone have a good explanation for Davis remaining so half-baked despite the rapid transit access and relative plethora of (re-)developable parcels?
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Fattony -- Somerville is just a place looking for a raison d'etre outside of being the overflow of gnurd housing from Cambridge, and of course recently the Partners back office at Assembly

Beyond residential and some commercial why would a developer want to build office or lab space in Somerville?

It's not convenient enough for the lab gnurds who want to catch a seminar at MIT or Harvard or to have lunch with some of their competitors

and it doesn't have any of the lunchtime crowd in the of the financial district lunchtime places
 
fattony said:
I have never understood why this hasn't already happened. Does anyone have a good explanation for Davis remaining so half-baked despite the rapid transit access and relative plethora of (re-)developable parcels?
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It is happening though, slowly but surely. Johnny D's is going that way next year isn't it?
 
It's really hard to replace the single-story "tax payers" without displacing the local businesses that occupy them. As much as I support increased density and development, I absolutely hate it when successful businesses (especially those that have been around for decades) are forced to close to make room for (more bland) condos. And if this is how I feel about it, imagine how the NIMBY's feel...

It would be hard to manage and enforce, but I'd like to see some sort of initiative that targets retail spaces that close of their own accord with incentives for re-development while instituting tax penalties on landlords that kick out tenants in order to redevelop. For example, the former T.F. Murphy location should absolutely get a few stories of condos while Patsy's should be left alone. Johnny D's is in a different position as the landlord and tenant are one and the same.
 
JumboBuc said:
It's really hard to replace the single-story "tax payers" without displacing the local businesses that occupy them. As much as I support increased density and development, I absolutely hate it when successful businesses (especially those that have been around for decades) are forced to close to make room for (more bland) condos. And if this is how I feel about it, imagine how the NIMBY's feel...
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Moreover, how do you manage to do that in Davis without taking a very large chunk of said businesses out at one time? Kinda feels like any development that would make sense for a developer would need to take out an entire block of businesses...
 
fattony said:
I have never understood why this hasn't already happened. Does anyone have a good explanation for Davis remaining so half-baked despite the rapid transit access and relative plethora of (re-)developable parcels?
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Davis is weirdly-located geographically. It's a pain in the neck to get there by car, and it's almost entirely hidden from major travel corridors (with the exception of the bike path). It's off of Mass. Ave, and its major roads connect Tufts to nothing and Porter to... nothing. No one just comes across Davis. If you're there you either live there or you're going somewhere in the neighborhood.
 
I have never understood why this hasn't already happened. Does anyone have a good explanation for Davis remaining so half-baked despite the rapid transit access and relative plethora of (re-)developable parcels?
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+1 to equilibria's points.

Davis has reputation larger than its historical importance to Somerville. Somerville's historic commercial districts are Union, the areas around the 1600s-era Washington Street and the later turnpike and cut-offs built to funnel traffic through Sullivan or over the old Canal Bridge in Cambridge, or along Broadway connecting to Medford. Davis has been nothing more than a railroad-adjacent/streetcar suburb commercial center for the majority of its history - and played a secondary role to larger, more commercial, industrial Porter. If anything, it's the lack of importance that preserved Davis when larger squares were retrofitted for the automobile age and whatnot.

If Tip O'Neil wasn't speaker, Davis wouldn't even have rapid transit access - the original alignment didn't extend to Davis at all, it was only after advocacy and entreating Tip to save the day that Davis was added (you can still see the "not originally part of the plan" element in the way the station interacts with the square; most 70s/80s era extensions leaned heavily on 'park and ride' concept even if the siting was in a denser square). And then the Davis Square Task Force did a good job acquiring grants for renovating the square.

So the sum of all that is: Davis was a small, commercial center typical of streetcar suburbs - not a place you'd typically live. Davis riders feed Kendall Square in greater proportion than other stations - that's a newish travel pattern and one where the area around Davis was more than capable of absorbing these riders without having to create any space in the square itself.

And its appeal is relatively new - not that people didn't recognize it before, but actually building something in the square is different than just liking the funky attitude. We're only really dealing with 10 years at most, in which Davis' position ascended in relation to Somerville or nearby Cambridge - so in that context it makes sense that flipping the one-story retail fronts (something which generally comes after the mostly residential infill stages) is only just starting to gain traction.
 
To the point of the Letter to the Editor, Chris Korda is a known entity in the city with one note to play. He's not your typical NIMBY. He's more of a hard core activist.

From his Wikipedia page, he is a "US antinatalist activist,[2] techno musician and software developer, and leader of the Church of Euthanasia.[3] Korda is a cross-gendered vegan[4]. In 1995, Korda, together with Lydia Eccles, launched the campaign Unabomber for President."
 
kjdonovan said:
To the point of the Letter to the Editor, Chris Korda is a known entity in the city with one note to play. He's not your typical NIMBY. He's more of a hard core activist.

From his Wikipedia page, he is a "US antinatalist activist,[2] techno musician and software developer, and leader of the Church of Euthanasia.[3] Korda is a cross-gendered vegan[4]. In 1995, Korda, together with Lydia Eccles, launched the campaign Unabomber for President."
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okay.....then. Antinatalism and the Church of Euthanasia is definitely above my pay grade and beyond the scope of this board. Although, I do find it interesting that someone who is openly "anti-human" is a champion for NIMBYs, even if he isn't one himself.
 
kjdonovan said:
From his Wikipedia page, he is a "US antinatalist activist,[2] techno musician and software developer, and leader of the Church of Euthanasia.[3] Korda is a cross-gendered vegan[4]. In 1995, Korda, together with Lydia Eccles, launched the campaign Unabomber for President."
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I just went down a very strange internet rabbit hole
 
kjdonovan said:
From his Wikipedia page, he is a "US antinatalist activist,[2] techno musician and software developer, and leader of the Church of Euthanasia.[3] Korda is a cross-gendered vegan[4]. In 1995, Korda, together with Lydia Eccles, launched the campaign Unabomber for President."
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Guess I was wrong when I said techies can't be interesting people. Another of the commenters in that link pointed that the guy is loaded and given his profession it seems believable. So that part at least fits the NIMBY narrative - "I've got mine so efff you".
 
CantabAmager said:
+1 to equilibria's points.

Davis has reputation larger than its historical importance to Somerville. Somerville's historic commercial districts are Union, the areas around the 1600s-era Washington Street and the later turnpike and cut-offs built to funnel traffic through Sullivan or over the old Canal Bridge in Cambridge, or along Broadway connecting to Medford. Davis has been nothing more than a railroad-adjacent/streetcar suburb commercial center for the majority of its history - and played a secondary role to larger, more commercial, industrial Porter. If anything, it's the lack of importance that preserved Davis when larger squares were retrofitted for the automobile age and whatnot.

....So the sum of all that is: Davis was a small, commercial center typical of streetcar suburbs - not a place you'd typically live. Davis riders feed Kendall Square in greater proportion than other stations - that's a newish travel pattern and one where the area around Davis was more than capable of absorbing these riders without having to create any space in the square itself.

And its appeal is relatively new - not that people didn't recognize it before, but actually building something in the square is different than just liking the funky attitude. We're only really dealing with 10 years at most, in which Davis' position ascended in relation to Somerville or nearby Cambridge - so in that context it makes sense that flipping the one-story retail fronts (something which generally comes after the mostly residential infill stages) is only just starting to gain traction.
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CantabAmager -- you are mostly on target except you missed the Tufts connection

What Davis has that the rest of Somerville lacks except for Porter [Cam/Som] is the U connection -- that tends to make Davis and its surroundings the most Cam part of Som [again Porter excepted]

It also makes Davis a destination from the Cam side -- that can be a great selling point for Davis its a couple of stops from Harvard Sq and only a handful from Kendall

If I was a developer interested in making a big splash in Somerville, it would be to build somewhat denser and higher right in the Davis Square and its immediates with a focus of entertainment [food, music, games?] on the ground floor -- it could evolve into another Kenmore / Fenway for entertainment

In particular:
  • go mid-high @ 10 to 15 stories right along the main drags in the square [i.e. Holland St., Elm St., College Ave., Highland Ave.]
  • 5-6 dropping down to 4-3 stories as you move along the main connectors to/from Mass Ave. [i.e. Cameron Ave., Meacham Rd., Day St., Dover St., etc. ] into the the area that is mostly 3 deckers now
 
whighlander said:
In particular:
  • go mid-high @ 10 to 15 stories right along the main drags in the square [i.e. Holland St., Elm St., College Ave., Highland Ave.]
  • 5-6 dropping down to 4-3 stories as you move along the main connectors to/from Mass Ave. [i.e. Cameron Ave., Meacham Rd., Day St., Dover St., etc. ] into the the area that is mostly 3 deckers now
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10-15 story buildings along any of those streets would be... jarring to say the least. Lining the streets on both sides with buildings that tall would basically annihilate any sort of natural sunlight at street level.

Moreover, any sort of retail/large developments in that area between Davis and Mass-Ave would be strangled by traffic. That entire area is a hot mess that can barely support the folks moving in and out of the square as is much less the folks living and parking along the roads.

I guess you did predicate that with saying you wanted to make a splash... but I reckon a plan like this would be more akin to putting a firecracker in a hornets nest.
 
@Texasian: I agree. I was definitely thinking more along the lines of a transit-oriented 4-6 story commercial and/or residential buildings with ground floor retail. I was also thinking of locations like the parking lot between Day and Dover Street.
 
If you're looking at Somerville, Davis is one area that doesn't need too much attention. IMO it's a good example of a small urban center that has benefitted greatly from the T. A few gaps could be filled in here and there but on a whole, it works pretty well. There's a good mix of students, families and young professionals. Traffic is a bit of a mess at times but any major developments would just add to that. I'm far more concerned about Union. It seems like it's meeting after meeting after meeting. More and more stuff closes down while everyone waits on the promises of US2 and GLX.
 
Ruairi said:
If you're looking at Somerville, Davis is one area that doesn't need too much attention. IMO it's a good example of a small urban center that has benefitted greatly from the T. A few gaps could be filled in here and there but on a whole, it works pretty well. There's a good mix of students, families and young professionals. Traffic is a bit of a mess at times but any major developments would just add to that. I'm far more concerned about Union. It seems like it's meeting after meeting after meeting. More and more stuff closes down while everyone waits on the promises of US2 and GLX.
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Ruairi -- Davis has the potential for significant development -- not real tall or really massive but the average height / FAR in the immediate 1 block radius of the station entrances should at least be similar to Harvard Square
 
Westie - the Tufts connection is true for the later stages, though College Ave-Somerville Ave connection actually predates the schools founding (obviously the street name was different). For a while that was the only connection to the area around Davis, with the exception of Beech St which connected to the old "Great/North Road" aka Mass Ave. Having Tufts there didn't hurt, but I think the Red Line confirmed what the Square would become - the effects don't have to be immediate, but once the station is there it offers the perpetual opportunity. Tufts is way outside the normal catchment area of a Square so I wouldn't heap everything on the U's shoulders.

I wouldn't go too crazy; the square sucks in people from the periphery, that's how it operates. If you stray too far from that, you're messing with old patterns and they can bite back. Not gonna say Somerville is the best ever at development, but they're the best in the area and it's mostly just infill, not 5+ stories. If you want that? Go somewhere where there's old travel patterns but the 60-80s era fuck shit up attitude...uh....fucked shit up. Porter, (and Union to an extent) can handle "up", Porters catchment is good, but sorta hamstrung by Avon Hill and the galleria sink. Davis got to where it was through big transpo changes, but small-scale, gradual housing/office development - no reason to mess with a good thing yet.
 
I'm very unconcerned that traffic would be significantly increased at times when it mattered, nor should it be a governing factor for an area that is incredibly walkable and bikable, especially considering the types of new residents any development would attract. Any new developments will bring more amenities in a relatively small area, only increasing area walkability, even if there are inevitably a fraction of those people who chose to drive into/around the area.

I might not advocate for heights as tall as what Whighlander is suggesting, but I definitely agree that Davis should be marching slowly to redevelop on the small pockets of underutilised land - particularly around Sacco's and the scores of single-story retail. I know the city has highlighted potential areas of intense development as part of its review on zoning near squares.
 
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