South Station Tower | South Station Air Rights | Downtown

[Equilibria]

There are other parts of the country, Seattle comes to mind, that are much better.

I apologize for getting off topic.

Better how? Is there data online that tracks "mean days from the time a skyscraper's site is fenced off to the time a flag is carried to the top"?

I can imagine several reasons for this taking a long time, not least of which is the need to minimize disruption of the active train platforms below. Another is the need to complete a fairly complex build of the bus station before you even start the tower (which may have been an MBTA demand).

 

[bobthebuilder]

As far as archeology , the site is on fill . The original shoreline was where the old Essex Hotel stands ,across the street. I do know there was extensive drilling to test the soil under the station tracks when they were re configured, because I was there for it. I do not remember any archeologists on site.

Hey, you never know! There could be another ship there.

 

[tocoto]

It sounds like they have to put in pilings similar to those at Winthrop square with all the muck. There won't be an underground parking structure so less work overall, but it is hard to imagine how they do this without a giant muddy pit and lots of big machine right in the middle of South Station. It appears they must take down at least part of the canopy between the station and the shelters along the tracks.

It's likely this will be messy and inconvenient to commuters for a long while.

 

[Java King]

I remember about the time I moved to Boston in 1987 that South Station was a huge construction site. The first train I ever took to New York City departed from a station that was a temporary metal trailer if I remember correctly. My roommates at the time were from Spain, and they couldn't believe how awful temporary South Station was. Anyway, it was worth the construction mess to have a beautiful entrance to the city, used by millions of people each year. I still find it a HUGE thrill to get on the train in quiet Greenbush/Scituate and depart amongst the buzz of South Station with all the activity. I'm sure the end product will be worth the wait and improve the overall pedestrian experience. I'm not totally wild about those arches we see in the renderings, but I'm hoping that space turns out as a place you want to be for a while. I generally enjoy the activity at South Station concourse and I always walk around a bit before and after taking a train there. So I'm hoping the covered platforms, arched concourse, and existing waiting area meld together as one of the great public areas for Boston. It should be equivalent to a Grand Central experience, but I'll be happy if it's half that good.

 

[odurandina]

I still find it a HUGE thrill to get on the train in quiet Greenbush/Scituate and depart amongst the buzz of South Station with all the activity. I'm sure the end product will be worth the wait and improve the overall pedestrian experience. I'm not totally wild about those arches we see in the renderings, but I'm hoping that space turns out as a place you want to be for a while.
I generally enjoy the activity at South Station concourse and I always walk around a bit before and after taking a train there. So I'm hoping the covered platforms, arched concourse, and existing waiting area meld together as one of the great public areas for Boston. It should be equivalent to a Grand Central experience, but I'll be happy if it's half that good.

That is a perfect summary of my feelings about this project, and all the points you've made.

 

[chrisbrat]

I think this is going to turn out very nicely and will be worth the inconvenience associated with this upgrade. It may not wind up "equivalent to a Grand Central experience," as you put it, but it'll be a damn sight closer to THAT than to a "Penn Statiion experience." This is a necessary project and will have positive impact for decades to come post-construction.

 

[Bos77]

There are other parts of the country, Seattle comes to mind, that are much better.

I apologize for getting off topic.

Lolz... Don't be fooled into thinking that an abnormal number of tower cranes in the sky means Seattle is "better".

Have some fun here looking at projects that haven't moved in inch in years: https://www.seattleinprogress.com/ There is also a giant hole in the ground, a la Filenes, from 2005. It sits right across from City Hall, and they still can't get it developed.

Transit planning is almost a joke... First Avenue Streetcar debacle, light rail to Ballard, Tacoma, and Everett "coming soon" in 2035-55!? Don't even get me going on voter approved Initiative 976, which takes away funding for said projects.

The Seattle "Process" is so fk'd up, it has its own wiki entry: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle_process

Okay, end Seattle rant, back to SST.

 

[chrisbrat]

appreciate the detailed and knowledgable perspective on seattle. info like the above provides a welcome counterpoint to all the "boston sucks, everything moves slowly and all the buildings are 'fat turds;' every other big city does everything so much better!" nonsense that pollutes this forum all too often.

 

[Arlington]

In which Streetsblog bemoans the inclusion of new parking at South Station
More Transit-Oriented Parking Is Coming To South Station
but includes an "under the arches" view of the building:

 

[Coyote137]

South Station air rights open house meeting - Wednesday, 1/22/20, 290 Congress St (Atlantic Wharf), 2nd Floor (BSA Space, Fort Point Room)

Edit to add that the time for this meeting will be 4:30 PM - 6:30 PM

 

[whighlander]

That is a perfect summary of my feelings about this project, and all the points you've made.

Odurandina -- I suspect that the architecture folks must have looked at the old photos of South Station when it had the HUGE Train Shed and was not only the worlds busiest but also the Worlds largest Railroad Station

This will bring back a bit of that feeling -- all of the train platforms while still outside -- will be under either the tower elevated lobby or bus station -- so the days of standing in blowing snow while trying to board will be over

 

[citydweller]

It amazes me that such buildings in the previous post, the train shed for example, was even possible given what they had to work with at the time, i.e. primitive construction equipment, paper-pencil design tools, etc For instance, how did they erect those massive trusses?

 

[statler]

I want to know how the air in that shed was even remotely breathable.

 

[RandomWalk]

Some of the earlier posts show photos with the false work and derricks to construct the shed.

 

[whighlander]

Some of the earlier posts show photos with the false work and derricks to construct the shed.

Random --
here are two more from early to middle age of South Station with the shed in place

interior of waiting room showing some of the original ceiling and floor

All photos below taken by Leslie Jones 1929/1930 -- [Lesley Jones archive @ BPL]

Bird's eye view of South Station from the top of the United Shoe Machinery Building -- taken by Leslie Jones 1929 -- [Lesley Jones archive @ BPL]

Even more interesting are the photos of the removal of the shed -- That happened quite early in the history of South Station when it was still very very busy -- Nothing to do about Lungs -- All about corrosion of the structure due to the proximity to the salt water environment

Demolition circa 1930

After the demo of the Train Shed was completed

Remarkably Busy South Station circa WWII -- Note the original photo removed as it apparently shows GI's at behind North Station not South Station as the caption indicated

the station handled 125,000 passengers each day during World War II

translating into over 45M in 1945
this broke the 38 Million 1913 record [when South Station was declared the busiest station in the world] and it is still more than the current maximum of passengers which have passed through Logan in one year.

 

[odurandina]

^^re; Weigh:
The long floor/s must have been something.
We've probably each beheld similar things. (For me: in Mexico).
The old shed might fairly be compared to a prototypical station of the scale of Leeds Central, defunct (1967).
The sheds look generally, similar.

From the outside, the appearance of that long wall (beyond it's iconic center) isn't anything great, imo.
It didn't span to the vanishing point-- but it was [harsh].

There were many tracks: millions of people arrived and departed on trains here.
Sadly, many would not ever board another train again in North America, (except as corpses).

It would be cool to go back and visit the vestibules, vending booths & learn about the souls seated within their benches.

Leeds Central is Gone too.

i regularly visit these places. Get in your car and go see them. https://www.google.com/maps/search/railroad+museams+/@39.7323464,-105.2796734,7z


i'm looking ahead to the next chapter.

Hopefully we get some of that real estate back behind the vanquished wall with the Post Office move (someday).
(a truly nauseating topic)

........................................................


The inside of the New South Station will be scrutinized in the coming years by architect enthusiasts & pundits
who become increasingly curious about these parts of the South Station expansion. i attended 2 meetings--
i nodded, 'uh huh...' i'm still confused. i spoke in support at the final meeting (granting approval).

Visitors may exit the front doors for a sneak preview before seeking out their next train.
They'll meet with a big City p.o.v. -- w/ >180m skyscrapers in a 360° kaleidoscope that fill the sky above.
*(Winthrop Square will be prominent).

And though it probably won't even be close to a prototypical medium-sized city/Euro station,
it will be well-proportioned to the Downtown zone, functional, and spilling over with activity.

It don't think it will be poorly maintained, sooty and dirty--as some detractors have stated in the Globe.

North Station has exceeded all of my expectations.
I bet we get another show stopper w/ the new South Station.
It will be great--but in uniquely different ways.

Someone will say, "Not many Cities in USA can boast anything quite like this--"

Visitors from Eastern Europe may raise an eyebrow, that South Station takes a few cues from Zoloti Vorota (Kiev),
among others.

 

[stick n move]

Nice find ^

I couldnt agree more.. Seeing the changes at North Station have truly been mind blowing, and Im actually extremely proud to have it in my city now for the first time in my life. Its also distinctly Boston. Huge improvement.

I cant wait to now see how the new South Station will compare. It will be very different, which is good imo, and hopefully iconic in its own way. I cant wait to see how it stacks up and how they both compare and contrast.

 

[FitchburgLine]

This is a fun discussion - in terms of facilities and amenities, the pre-boom (say 2008) ranking of major stations was BOS > BBY > BON. Right now I'd argue it's BON > BOS > BBY, but with both Back Bay and South Station with planned air-rights overhauls, I'd be interested to hear peoples projections for the future.

 

[HelloBostonHi]

I think BOS>BON>BBY if everything goes according to plan, but BBY air rights is still in limbo, I'd love to see it actually happen. BOS has the most potential being already a pretty great location and space, especially if SSX goes through. BBY will always be limited by it's dungeon platforms, especially for the Worcester line.

 

[The EGE]

[off topic]

Back Bay's biggest problem is diesel exhaust - once the combination of better ventilation, renovations, and eventually electric service makes the waiting room habitable and the platforms breathable, it's got a lot of potential. The interior plans (assuming they go through) will do a lot, but there's other work to make it a really functional and pleasant station:

• Make the Worcester Line platform not suck. Raise it to high level (and reduce your dwell times), and have trains stop closer to the east end where the station access is. Put brighter but less-harsh lighting, and ditch the bare concrete. (How about paint the entire walls purple!) Widen the stairway on the west side of Dartmouth to allow entry, and consider additional entrances at Clarendon (the busway plaza) and Stuart (near Au Bon Pain).
• More entrances. Sign the hell out of Copley Place as a convenient entrance to the Orange Line. Turn the exit-only stairs at Columbus into entrances, with elevators for redundant accessibility. Add full-time entrances at Berkeley Street. This isn't a terminal station where everyone is converging at one point; having as many ways to access the station from different directions makes it more useful.
• Ditch the hideous ads on the facade.
• Signage and maps to emphasize connections and destinations - Green Line and buses at Copley Square, the interior route to the Prudential Center, etc.