Suffolk County Courthouse Discussion | 3 Pemberton Square | Government Center

we got to talking about this on the Bulfinch Crossing thread, so i'll just post here rather than helping to further derail the other thread...

Suffolk court faces shutdown, maybe for good

Mass. courthouses need vast, costly fixes


By Maria Cramer Globe Staff September 28, 2014

Almost 10 years after the completion of massive repairs at the Suffolk Superior Courthouse — a renovation project that displaced dozens of clerks, judges, and lawyers — officials say one of the state’s largest and busiest court buildings may have to close again, perhaps for good.

The proposal is one result of a sweeping study of the 101 courthouses across the state, many of which are overcrowded and rundown. But the notion of shutting down the venerable Suffolk courthouse, a stately example of art deco architecture built in the 1930s, has workers there anxious about the future of the building in downtown Boston.

“It’s old and it’s revered,” Suffolk Clerk for Civil Business Michael Joseph Donovan said. “This is the home for the legal community.”

....At the Suffolk courthouse, a 24-story high-rise, elevators break down continually, and on rainy, windy days water seeps in through the windows. Elevators in the 24-story Suffolk Superior Courthouse break down continually, often stranding clerks and court officers.

“The Trial Court will have to vacate the Suffolk High Rise to rehabilitate or replace it,” Spence said. “The building envelope is failing, so weatherization is a serious problem. ... Water comes in through the exposed bricks. This causes water to get inside the building and to travel to office spaces and courtrooms.”

Clerks and security officers have become stuck in the elevators, which were built when the building was constructed and are especially difficult to fix because replacement parts are no longer available.

“We manage to keep it together with chewing gum and bailing wire,” Spence said.

Spence said there is no timetable yet for potential projects or estimates for the cost of upgrading old courthouses and building new ones.

But a look at other courthouses approved for construction gives an idea of how costly the endeavor could be: In Greenfield, a new trial court expected to open in 2016 is estimated at $60 million; in Salem, renovations for a 100-year-old courthouse are expected to cost $55 million; and in Lowell, a 16-courtroom judicial complex touted as the future of energy-efficient government buildings is projected to cost $175 million.

The Trial Court has hired a consultant to draft a report detailing problems at the other state facilities and possible solutions that will not be ready until at least February. Even then, the Legislature will have to approve bond bills for any construction.

But lawyers and judges said they are worried about how an extended period of construction at the Superior Court might affect access to justice.

One plan calls for shutting down the courthouse and temporarily moving all civil and criminal matters across the county line to Malden, a possibility that Spence said is remote.

Still, even the outside chance that court business will move from a downtown location to Middlesex County is extremely troubling, said Suffolk District Attorney Daniel F. Conley, whose office prosecutes criminal cases in Boston, Chelsea, Revere, and Winthrop.

“We serve victims and they are the ones that would be most negatively impacted should this move occur,” he said. “This is an ill-conceived move on its face. We’re not talking about mere inconvenience here but enormous costs and hurdles for victims, witnesses, police officers, and jurors to take their rightful place in the justice system.”

Spence declined to identify the precise Malden location or why it was considered as a possible space to move Suffolk Superior Court business.

“As we have delved into the complexities of temporarily relocating the Suffolk High Rise, it became clear that the Malden location presents various challenges,” he said. “While it is still a possibility, it is just one of numerous options we are examining.”

In 1999, Suffolk Superior Court employees were forced to move from the building to the federal courthouse in Post Office Square because of a toxic waterproofing chemical that sickened dozens of employees.

In 2005, the building reopened after undergoing $40 million in renovations. Even then, state officials warned that the building may have to come down eventually.

At nearly 400,000 square feet and with 26 courtrooms, the Suffolk high-rise is the third largest courthouse in the state and where the bulk of its murder cases are tried. Located in Government Center, it is near several MBTA train and bus lines, ideal for Suffolk residents who report there for jury duty or witnesses and victims called to testify.

The neighboring John Adams Courthouse, which houses the Supreme Judicial Court, was restored to its former glory in 2005 through a $150 million renovation project. The courthouse, which also houses the state Appeals Court, would not be affected by the closing of the Suffolk high-rise.
 
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To be clear, that article that is "sparking" this discussion is three years old. There is no news on the Suffolk County Courthouse, though they do plan to include yet another study of the building's future in next year's budget.
 
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Woops I was thinking the wrong one. What is funny though is that this is a skyscraper with window AC. Is this really that bad that it cant be rehabbed? I see a trend in Boston where state owned buildings/structures are built and then never repaired until they fall apart, then they're tore down and replaced. What is the meaning behind this? JFK is on its way out already, when all it needs is some tlc and preventative maintenance and it would last forever.


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i redacted the Globe article for just the Court tower.

That tower will need to come down sooner or later. It can be replaced by a modern building easily capable of standing for 200~300 years.

We'll need a substitute skyscraper for 5~6 years while the defunct tower is replaced.

Candidates? Low section of the O'Neill Building goes high the day after tomorrow or TD Garden office.... or the obvious candidate; 1 Congress.
 
Why does it need to come down? How bad can it be. We dont need any more glass, we went from basically no glass to in 5 years were going to almost be saturated.
 
Boston needs a new Court tower built for the future we are rapidly evolving into. The thing that's there now is a deteriorating nightmare. It's actually a good deal older than it's actual age. ...It was a tough call to attempt to renovate it in the first place. But it bought us a few years–which is probably a good thing.

Facadectomy of some sort to render a modern, spacious tower isn't practical, if even possible. The new tower should be Art Deco/modernist, built about 480~540', and maybe 600~700,000 sq ft.

*caveat; because there will be hell to pay with the preservation groups + the Landmarks Commission, the new tower will probably need to preserve some of the walls. maybe 100~150' and something 180~270° is possible. However that shakes out–let's go.

Landmark Tower was one of the buildings damaged in the 2000 Fort Worth tornado. Being only 43 years old, it could have gone on (despite being unoccupied at the time). Sometimes, it's just better to move on.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79sJ1bMR6VQ
 
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Ohhh this is about THIS building, not the Adams...
I like art deco, and I like this building but not as much as the one next door.
I'm not sure how essential saving this one is... ideally, yes, but it may not be worth it.

If it's torn down, take the entrance and make it into a sweet art installation somewhere.

But goddam... what the fuck were they thinking with Center Plaza?! I mean, seriously — even in the most extreme urban renewal scheme imaginable, how they could just totally wall off two great buildings that happen to sit upon what might otherwise be the most successful large urban plaza in the entire city — were it exposed to the general public — is beyond me.
 
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Idk if I see Boston demo-ing a high rise for at least 30 years. Weve done it before, but I dont see it now.
 
It'd be a shame to not restore this building properly and instead tear it down.

That said, I'm not sure it's a good candidate for condo-conversion though with the small-ish windows. Offices are a possibility but the trend in todays offices is big open floor plates and good natural light and this tower does not have that.

Suffolk could buy it and turn it into something perhaps. Dorms? Classrooms?
 
Art deco tend to really shine when well and tastefully restored. A full redo would make a proper ventilation/ac system doable and would seemingly alleviate most complaints voiced here. Also, old elevator systems can see a full overhaul and work fine using a combination of all the original, sturdy, equipment and new digital controllers. I got taken on a tour of the new Yorker building in NYC, got a healthy dose of art deco history, and the buildings history in the early days of electrification. It was impressive, and those elevator mechanical parts were working reliably.
 
That said, I'm not sure it's a good candidate for condo-conversion though with the small-ish windows. Offices are a possibility but the trend in todays offices is big open floor plates and good natural light and this tower does not have that.

i've thought of this idea many times; complete with our Boston History Museum in the lower floors. Still, it would require a lot of changes to the building that may not be possible. The #1 problem is safety. The curtain wall is deteriorating rapidly, is woefully short on windows, and replacing it will not only cost millions, but it would seem to defeat 1/2 the purpose of preserving the building.

The building was built in 1929. It's already a firetrap. It lacks proper ventilation, and the access to install it has already been demonstrated to be untenable. The tower has poor very poor access to conduits/plumbing/hvac/. It may be possible–including new elevators be retrofitted–to comply with safety codes–then at what cost and with how many serious changes to the structural makeup to accommodate adequate H20 delivery, including updated fire supression, and hvac? What about the fire escape routes?

They already tried to address these problems–and failed. That should raise alarms that you'd ever be able to get what is required for a reasonable cost. In Boston, it's hard enough to do when you start with a clean sheet of paper.

Suffolk could buy it and turn it into something perhaps. Dorms? Classrooms?

Dorms? for all the reasons above; i would think not. Classrooms, might be possible. But, you're still dealing with a building is in extremely shape with all kinds of safety and comfort problems. ...It's time to move on.

There's also the problem that it's the perfect location for a court tower, unless you relocate that to the State Services site or Center Plaza. Center Plaza most certainly should be broken up, with at least 1 section going taller.
 
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Yeah, I just don't understand how someone can grow up in a city like Boston, see an old building and think, "Well, that building can no longer be useful!"

I guess some folks want to see the Urban Renewal of the West End be continued.
 
The building is ugly. There are air conditioners haphazardly sticking out of the windows. Yes, it is art deco, but honestly it looks pretty cheap and flat.
 
The building is ugly. There are air conditioners haphazardly sticking out of the windows. Yes, it is art deco, but honestly it looks pretty cheap and flat.

You are clearly not seeing the potential of a major refresh. Update the HVAC and the window air conditioners go away. Add some accent highlighting to bring out the architectural details and you get a handsome art deco tower. We have very few of those in Boston -- it is worth saving.
 
You are clearly not seeing the potential of a major refresh. Update the HVAC and the window air conditioners go away. Add some accent highlighting to bring out the architectural details and you get a handsome art deco tower. We have very few of those in Boston -- it is worth saving.

+1. We have almost no art deco towers in Boston-this is one of the few ones actually visible on the skyline. Why rob ourselves of one of the best? The building just needs some TLC. It could become a landmark if it was.

If someone wants it demolished because it is supposedly ugly, than that's a matter of opinon. If someone wants it demolished because it is "unfixable" then they are not seeing the potential.
 
The building is ugly. There are air conditioners haphazardly sticking out of the windows. Yes, it is art deco, but honestly it looks pretty cheap and flat.

This is not a through-away building. It could be great (again).

cca
 
We seem to be playing Godless heathen/s today; This might be the one case where absence of evidence turns out to be evidence of absence. Everything everyone is talking about here was studied or tried. Hvac, everything. They already poisoned a good many with the glue they used to keep it pasted together. Stop downplaying the renovation until you get the facts. Until that happens, i'll continue with the 'one day, this building is going to kill people,' approach.
 

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