Sullivan Square Superstation/Transport Hub

Charlie_mta said:
I went through the entire set of plans in the link, and must say the busway alignments are rife with tight radii and sharp turns. The operating speed looks like it will be crawling along, not rapid transit.

How about taking a cue from the early 1900's, and build a rapid transit rail line for the urban ring. I know, I know; megabucks and NIMBY's, but come on, this wiggly busway proposal is a really half-assed proposal for a large, dense urban core.
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The important thing is to make it better at an affordable cost. I'd rather get 70% better at a can do price, than 90% better on paper at a can't do price.
 
Tangent, would really recommend taking a look at the plans if you havent already - charlieMTA is right a lot of the proposed routings are really banana-land curvy - its like they gave some earnest and hardworking civil engineer an extra credit assignment to prove that it's at least theoretically possible to thread a bus through these routings...
 
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tangent said:
The important thing is to make it better at an affordable cost. I'd rather get 70% better at a can do price, than 90% better on paper at a can't do price.
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At some point if you want to be a "World Class City" you have to be willing to PAY for world class infrastructure. Or you can choose to be a quaint backwater stuck in the 19th century.
 
NSRL, Urban Ring Rapid Transit, Blue Line to Lynn/Salem, and improved Seaport transportation are all things that need to happen. Massachusetts hasn't improved transit infrastructure in years, we are going to fall behind if nothing is done. Waltham/Watertown is another area that desperately needs improved Transit access yet no plans or studies have been made.
 
Yea waltham is probably the most underserved area that is that close to the city. Its crazy.
 
stick n move said:
Yea waltham is probably the most underserved area that is that close to the city. Its crazy.
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not expressly disagreeing that Waltham/Watertown should, by all rights, be far more connected to Boston, but the situation in Somerville is really the most glaringly absurd. Yes, there are two T stations (both of which are only barely within city limits), but given Somerville's population, demographics, and proximity/interconnection with Cambridge and Boston, itself, the situation is laughably poor and wouldn't exist in any other significant U.S. metropolitan area.

Yes, GLX is a "thing" (I guess), but even the most optimistic estimates now have stations opening around 2020 (and not all of them), whereas initial projections were 2014-2016.

The T needs major overhaul ASAP. It'll take significant and organized "uproar" to make that happen, but unfortunately all that's in place is a vocal few (and then occasionally greater -- albeit ephemeral -- outrage whenever there's major weather-related service interruption and more folks realize one byproduct of a much larger and systemic problem).
 
CSTH said:
Tangent, would really recommend taking a look at the plans if you havent already - charlieMTA is right a lot of the proposed routings are really banana-land curvy - its like they gave some earnest and hardworking civil engineer an extra credit assignment to prove that it's at least theoretically possible to thread a bus through these routings...
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Maybe so, but we are probably 30 to 40 years from an urban ring with either dedicated busways or light rail through Somerville and Cambridge. In the next 15 to 20 years I'd like to see some routes established even if they are gerrymandered.
 
BostonUrbEx said:
That would require at a minimum: 1) North-South Rail Link complete and 2) CSX to abandon freight rights after either losing the Everett customers or getting them to switch to PanAm.
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F pointed out they could technically reroute freight/CR out to the West without NSRL. I think the concept also involved buying some additional trains and maintenance capacity. Seemed a bit convoluted. But worth considering since Grand Junction is so sparsely used.

Could the state just take away those freight rights via eminent domain? Can't imagine it would be too costly to be much of an impediment.
 
tangent said:
F pointed out they could technically reroute freight/CR out to the West without NSRL. I think the concept also involved buying some additional trains and maintenance capacity. Seemed a bit convoluted. But worth considering since Grand Junction is so sparsely used.

Could the state just take away those freight rights via eminent domain? Can't imagine it would be too costly to be much of an impediment.
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The Grand Junction is much less useful than you're thinking it is. It intersects a all the major roads in Cambridge at grade at awkward angles and they can't be grade-separated.

Any real transit service on the line would gridlock every road in Cambridge with how frequently it'd be blocking the intersections.

That's why the only semi-serious intended use for it is a handful of trains in the peak direction only. Anything more is going to be too catastrophic for the city.
 
The plan F-Line talked about involved using Green Line trains and running them as another branch which allows for the Mass Ave crossing to be grade separated and the Main St crossing to be a signalized crossing like on the surface running portions of the green line.
 
This thread is becoming a cliff notes version of the existing urban ring thread
 
citylover94 said:
The plan F-Line talked about involved using Green Line trains and running them as another branch which allows for the Mass Ave crossing to be grade separated and the Main St crossing to be a signalized crossing like on the surface running portions of the green line.
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Yes, even if a green line branch crossed every street along the GL we are talking about 6 street crossings. Four of which are major roads. Basically adding a 20 to 30 second light cycle every ten or fifteen minutes depending on the frequency of trolley's.

Much fewer intersections and lights than either the B and C branches of the Green line. Not a big deal compared with getting a major improvement in service east to west across Cambridge.
 
tangent said:
F pointed out they could technically reroute freight/CR out to the West without NSRL.
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Exactly what I said, CSX would have to give up the customer to PanAm if they so chose.

tangent said:
But worth considering since Grand Junction is so sparsely used.
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Multiple times per day? It is used by CSX, MBTA, and Amtrak.

tangent said:
Could the state just take away those freight rights via eminent domain?
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No. Flat out no. Completely illegal.
 
BostonUrbEx said:
No. Flat out no. Completely illegal.
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Why is it illegal? Do you mean the conversion from heavy to light rail would have to be done by the Feds and not just the State? That I could believe. Otherwise a private company's private contracts do not outweigh the government's ability to manage the transportation system. Eminent domain supersedes property rights, then the question simply becomes fair compensation.
 
tangent said:
Why is it illegal? Do you mean the conversion from heavy to light rail would have to be done by the Feds and not just the State? That I could believe. Otherwise a private company's private contracts do not outweigh the government's ability to manage the transportation system. Eminent domain supersedes property rights, then the question simply becomes fair compensation.
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The Commonwealth exercising eminent domain in taking of railroad right-of-way is legal. That precedent was settled in federal court in 1967, COMMONWEALTH OF MASSACHUSETTS v. BARTLETT Civ. A. No. 66-679-F., 266 F.Supp. 390 (1967).

BUT the Commonwealth would have to get Interstate Commerce Commission and Federal Court authorization and approval first to take the common carrier rail line out of service.
 
How about a Boston Engine Terminal stop (plenty of CR trips stop there anyway, for employees) combined with a Community College and a Bus/Bikeway alongside the base of the elevated 93?
 
That would be very undesirable. For one, there's not enough to room to wedge platforms in for all of the tracks there. Two, if you're reasonably close to Community College for a transfer, you're also in the middle of an interlocking where trains are supposed to be changing tracks and shuffling to/from North Station. Three, you're basically in a no-man's land, especially if you aren't near Community College in order to stay out of the interlocking. Four, you're choking up the capacity in and out of North Station which is already in need of speeding up. Stopping to accommodate employees is already managed a little bit, and is supposed to be restricted to certain trains.
 
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