Taxes, Government

[Lurker]

When the city is the second largest employer in the city, there's a large concentration of public housing, and a high concentration of other people or organizations utterly dependent on the public dole, there's no way an incumbent mayor, unless threatening to cut off the gravy, is going to be voted out. Too many people are dependent on the king staying in power and distributing the goodies. The affluent minority paying for the whole patronage scheme is too small to unseat the king and still not quite irked enough to vote with their feet. Of course if the universities, medical/research centers, and corporate HQs were to leave, then the whole scheme would fall apart rather rapidly. As there would no longer be any reason for the affluent to stay, and it's hard to run a patronage kingdom without someone to extort the capital to run one from. Chicago is actually further down the road of this downfall than Boston at this point. Hence why King Daley decided to abdicate the throne.

 

[statler]

Re: Rose Kennedy Greenway

You would think since the affluent minority were getting such a raw deal they would just switch places with the utterly dependent folks who are clearly living like kings. Strange how that never happens.

 

[Lurker]

Re: Rose Kennedy Greenway

You would think since the affluent minority were getting such a raw deal they would just switch places with the utterly dependent folks who are clearly living like kings. Strange how that never happens.

Doesn't happen to the most affluent, they'd rather keep their freedom and the chunk of money not being pocketed by the crooked government. They use what leftover money and influence they have to carve out safe havens with special deals and hope their bought protection won't face a mafia style rate increase.

For people towards the middle and bottom it does become an exercise in calculus. Become a good little servant for government and make more money than you would in private enterprise after extortion. Or more towards the bottom: why kill oneself working at a minimum wage job that requires spending every penny on food, housing, and other necessities when moving entirely onto the government plantation takes care of that for you? Why not work for the government or not work at all, if the situation is that the government is just going to confiscate your private earnings anyway?

The framers of the Constitution knew full well that ultimately a government which could give everything, could also take everything, and revert back to the same crooked aristocracy they loathed in England. That's why the government was so limited in its powers early on. Of course the thirst for power, expansion of government in the often genuine, but misguided, effort to help people, has led to the same problems creeping back in.

Getting back to the Greenway, I wouldn't be surprised in a few decades that as a result of all the special assessments to abutters and the general corrupt nature of the median strip, that the entire thing get's surrounded by government offices or at least leased property. Those bastards want a waterfront location and with the shakedown of private office space in conjunction with greener pastures in the Back Bay office market, I really see the Greenway becoming a linear Government Center. At least in the Financial District Stretch from Harbor Towers to South Station.

 

[TheRifleman]

Re: Rose Kennedy Greenway

^^^
Lurker your posts are priceless........very Sad............Let me ask you this, Say we had a mayor that actually cared about the city and it's progress for the last 20 years. A positive vision that would just let the private companies, Non-profits and small companies come together. Cut taxes, and spending. What do you think Boston really could have become?

I feel like the city has an ankle weight with the size of 1500ILBS holding it down.


It's actually funny how Boston was one of the first places for the Tea Party and we fall in the opposite direction by MOB rule tatics by our political leaders

 

[Lurker]

Re: Rose Kennedy Greenway

I don't think the City of Boston has had a mayor actually concerned about the actual welfare of the city since before Mayor Curley. It has been about personal power or identity politics for a very long time. That's a big part of the reason why Boston had an amazing 19th Century and stumbled badly throughout the 20th.

 

[KentXie]

Re: Rose Kennedy Greenway

Cut taxes, and spending. What do you think Boston really could have become?

Will people stop calling for cuts in taxes? In my view, cutting taxes is the biggest I GOT MINE mind mentality that exists. The same people calling out the government for being unable to maintain infrastructures such as roads and bridges, or keep the T from falling apart and raising fares, or from overspending on programs that are beneficial for society as a whole such as healthcare, are the same people calling for tax cuts. Sure the government may not spend the money that will directly help you and they may waste some funds, the fact remains, the extra money collected from not cutting tax do help fund programs that would be cut with a lower tax. If you don't like it, go live on your own island and manage your money the way you want to spend it.
The city hasn't been able to generate boost in revenue through tax cuts. If the Laffer curve does exist, then it's clear that cutting tax is NOT THE WAY to close a deficit.

 

[Lurker]

Re: Rose Kennedy Greenway

Calling for tax cuts is an attempt to "starve the beast". If the government wasn't wasting money or padding the wallets of cronies no one would care about the current tax rate. As it is now, the government is taking a lot of capital out of the economy through taxes and we aren't getting much in services, infrastructure, or maintenance in return.

Any time anyone takes your stuff and squanders it people have a right to be pissed and demand the person responsible knock it off.

Mind you we've also established here how "starve the beast" alone, without other reforms, doesn't work because the government always threatens public safety and seniors before cutting any actual fat. We've also seen in the past few year how well new revenue WITHOUT REFORM works. (Thanks Sal & Deleo!)

 

[CSTH]

Re: Rose Kennedy Greenway

In my experience, if you starve a beast all you get is an angry, hungry, dangerous beast...

 

[TheRifleman]

Re: Rose Kennedy Greenway

Will people stop calling for cuts in taxes? In my view, cutting taxes is the biggest I GOT MINE mind mentality that exists. The same people calling out the government for being unable to maintain infrastructures such as roads and bridges, or keep the T from falling apart and raising fares, or from overspending on programs that are beneficial for society as a whole such as healthcare, are the same people calling for tax cuts. Sure the government may not spend the money that will directly help you and they may waste some funds, the fact remains, the extra money collected from not cutting tax do help fund programs that would be cut with a lower tax. If you don't like it, go live on your own island and manage your money the way you want to spend it.
The city hasn't been able to generate boost in revenue through tax cuts. If the Laffer curve does exist, then it's clear that cutting tax is NOT THE WAY to close a deficit.

You need to stop the GOVT spending to close the deficit. The problem is the political hacks will never stop until the Federal Reserve finally stops with the manipulation of the dollar. The Beast has gotten out of control and I don't see a good ending to this story.

 

[TheRifleman]

Re: Rose Kennedy Greenway

Lurker you know alot about History. Is this country heading for Deflation or Inflation? Would like to here your perspective and why.

 

[Lurker]

Re: Rose Kennedy Greenway

In my experience, if you starve a beast all you get is an angry, hungry, dangerous beast...

Yep, democracies really work well when people are afraid of their government and not the other way around. How dare the people question how THEIR MONEY is spent. The government is supposed to REPRESENT and WORK FOR THE PEOPLE and not itself.

Rifleman, I don't know whether we are headed for hyperinflation or deflation. Our debt is enormous and deeply tied into China, and since their currency has been distorted for the past fifty years, it's impossible to know the exact outcome of the eventual default. The whole world is bankrupt and doesn't want to admit it. The longer the charade goes on, the longer it's going to take to unravel the eventual disaster and start over from some internationally agreed upon baseline like Breton Woods.

 

[GW2500]

Re: Rose Kennedy Greenway

^^^ Honest question, that I also ask myself, if everyone is loosing then who is winning? Not like we owe money to Martians. Is it just to the billionaires of the world?

 

[JohnAKeith]

Re: Rose Kennedy Greenway

Someone mentioned "lower taxes"? Do you mean property taxes in Boston? I don't think that's necessary nor is it wise. The ship could certainly be made to run (a lot) better but I don't think our taxes are extraordinarily high.

I don't like the added sales & meals taxes, that's for sure. Stupid way to make up the difference in the budget.

I think we pay about $300 per month in property tax. It's a small place, one bedroom, but it's in the middle of the city and so far no one's stabbed me while walking out front nor has my building been burnt down by an arsonist.

 

[KentXie]

Re: Rose Kennedy Greenway

You need to stop the GOVT spending to close the deficit. The problem is the political hacks will never stop until the Federal Reserve finally stops with the manipulation of the dollar. The Beast has gotten out of control and I don't see a good ending to this story.

You do know that by stopping Government spending, you starve Hospitals, Public Schools, Universities of badly needed fund that will in return serve people. You'll starve funding directed to maintaining our roads, bridges, tunnels, and public transportation services. You'll send millions of low income residents into the streets. You end all bio and tech researches around the entire country. See that's the thing with the common folks. The only thing they see are the ones that are reported to the big media which is almost always negative publicity, but never the things they don't see.

Also, don't talk about the Federal Reserve when you barely know anything about how it works and what they do. The "manipulation of the dollar" or in the correct term, increasing the money supply helped decrease the interest rates and encouraged people to spend instead of stowing their money into their banks, and when an economy is in a recession, the first thing it needs to do is have its people start spending more, NOT save, because by doing so, demand drops for all products except for inferior goods and necessities and more people will be put out of work. Gradually, you'll see a drop in personal income and a rise in prices due to scarcity (from increase in world wide consumption by countries such as China and India.)

 

[KentXie]

Re: Rose Kennedy Greenway

Calling for tax cuts is an attempt to "starve the beast". If the government wasn't wasting money or padding the wallets of cronies no one would care about the current tax rate. As it is now, the government is taking a lot of capital out of the economy through taxes and we aren't getting much in services, infrastructure, or maintenance in return.

Any time anyone takes your stuff and squanders it people have a right to be pissed and demand the person responsible knock it off.

Mind you we've also established here how "starve the beast" alone, without other reforms, doesn't work because the government always threatens public safety and seniors before cutting any actual fat. We've also seen in the past few year how well new revenue WITHOUT REFORM works. (Thanks Sal & Deleo!)

"Starving the beast?" You might want to take a more thorough look into all the consequences. It's not "starving the beast." It's "cutting off the nose to spite the face" because as you explained already, not only does the government suffer, we suffer as well, even more so if you're the middle to lower class which is the majority.

 

[BostonUrbEx]

Re: Rose Kennedy Greenway

Real savings come with 4 lane caps on public interstates and highways which toll the shit out of people (commercial plates exempt from toll), elimination of commuter rail (but not metro systems or intercity rail), and decent minimum density requirements in metro areas (with theoretically no maximum, as long as living space meets proper criteria). No more sprawling sewer networks which are much more costly to take care of (just one large sewer pipe rather than 10-100 smaller ones) or sprawling water mains. Less roads. Less highway lanes. Stop subsidizing oil. Hell, you could probably sell off mass transit to private companies after a little while and they'd float just fine on their own.


I'm such an Urban Nazi. I'm going to make an Urban Nazi Party next election cycle (2016).

Although, technically I'm an Urban Libertarian because I cut back on public roads, highways, and sewers, sell off mass transit to private companies, and I give a minimum density but take away a maximum. Hey, living closer even means less school bus funding needed, too.

Nazi sounds much more maniacal though... Urban Nazi. I like it.

 

[TheRifleman]

Re: Rose Kennedy Greenway

You do know that by stopping Government spending, you starve Hospitals, Public Schools, Universities of badly needed fund that will in return serve people. You'll starve funding directed to maintaining our roads, bridges, tunnels, and public transportation services. You'll send millions of low income residents into the streets. You end all bio and tech researches around the entire country. See that's the thing with the common folks. The only thing they see are the ones that are reported to the big media which is almost always negative publicity, but never the things they don't see.

Also, don't talk about the Federal Reserve when you barely know anything about how it works and what they do. The "manipulation of the dollar" or in the correct term, increasing the money supply helped decrease the interest rates and encouraged people to spend instead of stowing their money into their banks, and when an economy is in a recession, the first thing it needs to do is have its people start spending more, NOT save, because by doing so, demand drops for all products except for inferior goods and necessities and more people will be put out of work. Gradually, you'll see a drop in personal income and a rise in prices due to scarcity (from increase in world wide consumption by countries such as China and India.)

Kentxie, I'm very surprised to see your view on GOVT play out like this. Especially when I agree with your posts 99% of the time. This is the 1% of your posts I disagree with.

Alan Greenspan is responsible for the cluster fuck this nation faces. Bernanke is just putting the final nail in the coffin. We are bankrupt and if you think low Interest rates encourage spending your wrong. Right now it is actually hurting the working classes buying power to actually improve the economy without wage inflation we will never recover. (See Paul Volger 80's Fed Chief the rise of Interest rates which set the tone for 20 year economic expansion) Strong Wages and savings built a strong foundation to grow. After Greenspan crashed the dot.com era with higher interest rates he began by creating the mother of all bubbles---Real Estate with lowering interest rates and extracting equity out of housing the problem is he never raised rates to the proper levels to balance out the system.

The end game is already in play and I'm thinking the bankers want a world currency so they can continue the sharade on how they rape society through inflation & deflation. The bailouts that Bush & Paulson issued was nothing more than recapitalizing the banks so when the Middleclass, rich go belly up they will buy your assets pennies on the dollar than sell them back to you for 50cents. This has been going on forever.

Here is a question for you why does the American people pay interest on money backed by them? Kennedy and Lincoln figured this out and they ended up shot and killed. Why doesn't America just issue American back Bonds to the American taxpayers to pay off the National DEBT so they won't have to pay interest to foreign investors who own the FED (See Rothchilds)? The Fed is a private organization that issues & prints American dollars backed by the American Taxpayer. They have no obligation to anytype of American laws or an audit from the Govt. But they print our money. Does that make any sense? No Accountability or checks & balances.

Concerning Govt spending you are right everything would take a serious hit, without Govt intervention, but the govt is not letting private sector determine what succeeds and what fails. The Govt is determining & guiding which companies succeed and who fails in a free economy. This is not Freedom by choice. This is intervention in a bad way which the laws don't apply to everyone in the same way. I also believe as a society we consume way too much and we need to face harder times to get us back to morals, ethics, accountability.

Lurker can explain it better than me. It's pretty deep. I'm not saying the govt should never interefer but the Beast gets out of control and to justify we are heading for the right direction is crazy. We might want to change the thread to these posts.

 

[Lurker]

Re: Rose Kennedy Greenway

The big problem with government spending is that every dollar it takes out of taxpayer pockets is one less efficiently dollar spent in the economy. There's almost never a 1:1 payback because of the overhead in collecting and dispersing tax monies, without even considering waste or corruption. Keynes multiplier is bullshit and has been proven bullshit for three quarters of a century. This is why government needs to be kept as small and to basic services as possible. Otherwise government becomes a massive drain the economy and actually hurts those it was originally meant to serve.

What's killing the country right now, besides overgenerous unfunded entitlements which outright encourage people to not be the most economically productive individuals, is the fact that the government is borrowing everything it spends. Not only is almost (I say almost because there are some basic services which do help facilitate an economy) every dollar spent being taken out of the economy hurting the economy, but we are all paying a MASSIVE premium in interest for the pleasure.

The government got away with deficit spending for years because of a constantly growing economy. One can get away with it, as often is done is business, with constant growth causing new revenues to outpace interest payments. This why tax cuts work, but spending cuts need to occur with them or the problem is just kicked down the road. Hence why it's really a bad long term idea for when there is a downturn and the bills come due.

Our only way out of the current mess is to either default, and hope China doesn't throw down the gauntlet, or to grow the economy massively. Meaning we need tax cuts in concert with austerity in government spending. We are talking massive spending cuts to offset the tax cuts until the economy recovers. Taxes can be raised moderately once the economy is back on its feet to help pay off the debt faster. But government spending even then will have to remain at close to austerity levels. We need to be running a surplus to pay off the national debt for a very long time and then probably amend the constitution to avoid any future deficit spending ever again.

 

[Lurker]

I always get my own threads split off. =)

 

[blade_bltz]

Keynes multiplier is bullshit and has been proven bullshit for three quarters of a century.

LOL, says who? The pathetic stimulus act of 2009 is hardly sufficient evidence for overturning Keynesianism. If one economic theory has been decisively proven bullshit by recent events, it's the efficient market hypothesis.