The Ipswich | 2 Charlesgate West | Fenway

DZH22 said:
The whininess of the younger, crybaby/participation trophy/safe space generation has me turning into a crotchety old man much sooner than I expected to.
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That's in your head. Not to mention we aren't the ones clinging to nostalgia and a foreign corporate logo for a sense of identity.
 
JumboBuc said:
It's not the wind around home plate, it's the wind on the streets blocks away. No way this tower would have an effect on the wind inside the stadium.
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Just saying it would be a valid concern (vs others listed) - whether or not this could or would actually change anything meaningful inside the park would be the job of a study and some physics.
 
Jouhou said:
That's in your head. Not to mention we aren't the ones clinging to nostalgia and a foreign corporate logo for a sense of identity.
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Boston isn't great because of building another Kensington. It's great because of its accumulation of history, side-by-side in a vibrant, bustling city. The sign is part of that history. Sure, it's not on the level of brownstones or any of the other spectacular architecture from 100+ years ago, but it's still a fun, quirky piece of history that is unique to our city. (regardless of the corporate mumbo jumbo)

Take it away, replace it with some slap-dick 20 story residential, and we are 1 step closer to another Charlotte, Dallas, Phoenix, etc.

I haven't made it my life's crusade to rid the world of Pokémon even though it's probably the dumbest thing I can possibly think of. I chalk it up to shit I don't understand and move on. (although I do plan to keep it the hell away from my kids) Maybe you young'ins should do the same with the Citgo sign. You don't get it, so leave it alone.
 
DZH22 said:
Boston isn't great because of building another Kensington. It's great because of its accumulation of history, side-by-side in a vibrant, bustling city. The sign is part of that history. Sure, it's not on the level of brownstones or any of the other spectacular architecture from 100+ years ago, but it's still a fun, quirky piece of history that is unique to our city. (regardless of the corporate mumbo jumbo)

Take it away, replace it with some slap-dick 20 story residential, and we are 1 step closer to another Charlotte, Dallas, Phoenix, etc.

I haven't made it my life's crusade to rid the world of Pokémon even though it's probably the dumbest thing I can possibly think of. I chalk it up to shit I don't understand and move on. (although I do plan to keep it the hell away from my kids) Maybe you young'ins should do the same with the Citgo sign. You don't get it, so leave it alone.
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We get it, you think "kids these days" are bags of shit.

Care to move on from that point?
 
Coyote137 said:
We get it, you think "kids these days" are bags of shit.

Care to move on from that point?
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The point is, stop trying to change shit just because you don't get it. Lots of people like the sign. There's nothing wrong with wanting to make your city better, and I understand the enthusiasm that generally comes from the younger generation. But don't ask us to remove beloved icons and not expect some mighty fierce opposition.

There's an old saying to pick your battles carefully. In the case of the Citgo sign, the battle means far more to preservationists than it means to those of you who would just as soon replace it with another generic condo tower.

In 15-20 years you will probably get your wish since there won't be enough old farts left to defend such a "silly, outdated" sign. That might also be around the time that we start seriously discussing a new Fenway Park. For now, it's too soon, so enjoy these icons while they are still here.
 
DZH22 said:
The whininess of the younger, crybaby/participation trophy/safe space generation has me turning into a crotchety old man much sooner than I expected to.

The sign is a symbol of Fenway, and nostalgia for everybody 25-30+ who grew up around here. Obviously it's not so high tech when compared to, say, Playstation 4, but it's a fun/quirky piece of Boston and an icon of the 20th century. If you have no memories of the 20th century, then yes the love affair with this sign probably is, indeed, baffling.
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I'm pretty sure I am older than you.

However, as one of the few around here that thinks that the innerbelt and southwest expressway absolutely should have been built, I have no issue with change for the greater good. And keeping the buildings in Kenmore a couple of stories tall for the sake of displaying a nostalgic image of yesterday doesn't make any economical or social sense, IMO.
 
Good God, people. It's not all about one thing OR the other: it's about seeking the right balance.
 
riffgo said:
Good God, people. It's not all about one thing OR the other: it's about seeking the right balance.
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You are correct.

However, this is a perfect spot for a residential tower of this size. It fronts the Pike and rail lines for damn sake. Instead it's going to be derailed by a fellow billionaire sports team owner who doesn't want to impact his views from his ballpark which is used 81 times a year, sometimes more with playoffs, but no more than 95 times. (I don't count concerts as they are not televised). Notwithstanding that, many of the best parks in the majors have large buildings looming over them.
 
I've always though the view from ballparks looks much better with MORE buildings in the background. I don't get this "it hurts the view" stuff. Of what? Some clouds?
 
Not sure how much Reddit represents the general sentiment among Boston residents but the r/boston forum seems to be as anti-NIMBY as our forum.
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Frequent poster on /r/boston here... it's mostly college students and young professionals. Only the latter is representative of actual city residents but it's still a small portion. It's anti-NIMBY because these are outsiders that want in. Mostly non-landowners or folks who have to put up with high rent because we haven't actively built up and out.
 
But, the public is overwhelmingly in favor of these projects anyway. Some might post in social media a little, but not in the Globe. Then the Herald readers; 95% supporers. Globe nimby number what, 10, 20? Everyone knows the Pike is a dead wall, perfect for building these.
 
bakgwailo said:
Wind is actually a very valid concern for a baseball team - I wouldn't blame them on not wanting to change the wind patterns around say home plate.
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Maybe they should've thought of that before they built the 406 Club and completely and irrevocably changed the wind patterns inside the ballpark forever. And maybe they should've thought of that again when they kept on adding to the 406 Club with extra luxury boxes, built the Monster seats, and started adorning the corner roofs with giant screens and free-standing corporate logos.

Nobody has altered the wind patterns at Fenway as much as the Sox have over the last 20-30 years. Every excuse they are pulling out here is something they themselves are repeat-offenders at.
 
I think the most important point that has been brought up on this page and has been reiterated many times over and over on this forum with different projects is that nobody owns their view. You own the land (not even that in some cases) that your project sits on. Thats it. Its becoming ridiculous the notion that you have rights to something that is not even yours. The city views are public realm and are not owned by anybody.

I remember this came up in the lewis wharf project, where people who lived in the current building came out against the new project because it will block some of their views of the harbor. You own up to the window of your condo and nothing past, thats the facts. Somebody needs to reel this in before it gets out of hand, because it is becoming a theme where it can squander many projects because of people feeling they have a right to something that is not theirs.

The city needs housing, if everybody in the city doesn't want their views changed nothing is going to get built. This is a city things get built. There are much bigger problems the city faces at the moment...like the piece by piece destruction of the urban fabric around us. There needs to be a reality check. People need to focus on the very real problems that the city has instead of wasting everybody's time on something that they do not even own.

-On another note they did no favors to the developer with that render they gave. They made this project look absolutely terrible, whether purposefully or not, and thats not going to help the situation imo.
 
Also I wasn't arguing against the citgo sign, I was pointing out the irony in the commentary of Millennials being overly emotional/whiny etc and then defending a "landmark" that only matters because of sentimental value.

It's a sign. It can be moved, even to an even more prominent position if the owner so desires. It's sort of an entirely different kind of discussion in regards to the Fenway skyline.
 
tobyjug said:
That view is outstanding! It is like what you would see in a big city.

P.S. The Citgo sign is just fine. I preferred the Cities Service sign the preceded it...it had a brooding presence. Miss the companion White Fuels sign too! Now those were "iconic"!
http://dome.mit.edu/bitstream/handle/1721.3/35276/KL_001602_sv.jpg?sequence=3
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TobyJug-- Absolutely -- It was the only place in Boston where you could see and oil well Gusher

The most amazing thing was that White Fuel, Coke and Cities Service were all so venerable signs that they were featured as electrically illuminated highlights of the iconic and much lamented an now lost hydraulically lifted diorama of the skyline that encircled the Planetarium Dome

You'd sit in the Charles Hayden Planetarium the normal lights would be lowered and then you notice the diorama of the skyline with the White Fuel Derick and its Gusher just before the sun dipped and the stars came out -- au nostalgia
 
F-Line to Dudley said:
Maybe they should've thought of that before they built the 406 Club and completely and irrevocably changed the wind patterns inside the ballpark forever. And maybe they should've thought of that again when they kept on adding to the 406 Club with extra luxury boxes, built the Monster seats, and started adorning the corner roofs with giant screens and free-standing corporate logos.

Nobody has altered the wind patterns at Fenway as much as the Sox have over the last 20-30 years. Every excuse they are pulling out here is something they themselves are repeat-offenders at.
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F-Line -- you are correct in general about their alterations and effectd of various types

But you missed the fact that they did recognize an apparent wind effect due to the Glass of th 406

As a result in the next rebuild that raised the top of the stadium even higher -- they trashed the great glass wall -- that huge sheet of curved frictionless glass might have made a subtle difference in air flow -- particularly when the wind blew in form center field

406 Club
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After rebuild into open seating
57d2c97abdcc4_emc%20club%20view%20from%20the%20field.jpg
 
Wow, 3 pages of fear. You have a new mayor, with buildings going up everywhere. The Sox are powerful, but this development will really benefit that area - a stretch of road that I always felt was sketchy and desolate at night.
 
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