The New Retail Thread

JumboBuc said:
Licenses are bought and sold by individuals just like any other asset. It's not a "licensing fee" per se as much as a sale price.
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I knew that was true of full liquor licenses but wasn't sure if that was also the case for beer and wine only.
 
JumboBuc said:
I'm always a little baffled by the delta between beer/wine licenses and full liquor licenses. Is the right to sell hard liquor really worth 6+ times the right to sell just beer and wine? I get that cocktails have higher margins than beer and wine, but they're also sold in much lower volume. Are there other limitations to beer/wine licenses that I don't understand?
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If I had to guess the idea is that beer/wine licences go towards restaurants, while a full liquor licence goes towards a bar/club. I can see people preferring restaurants over clubs, I'd love to live next to a restaurant but I wouldn't want to live next to a club.
 
tysmith95 said:
If I had to guess the idea is that beer/wine licences go towards restaurants, while a full liquor licence goes towards a bar/club. I can see people preferring restaurants over clubs, I'd love to live next to a restaurant but I wouldn't want to live next to a club.
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How does this explain why full liquor licenses trade for 6x as much? There are more wine/beer permits than full liquor permits, yes. On the market, wine/beer permits and full liquor permits are substitutes. In order for one to trade for 6x the price it must return 6x the value to holders.

It's surprising to me that the right to sell hard liquor returns 6x the value of the right to sell just beer and wine.
 
JumboBuc said:
Licenses are bought and sold by individuals just like any other asset. It's not a "licensing fee" per se as much as a sale price.

Banks will lend establishments the money to buy a license, and the license can in turn be used as collateral on the loan.

I'm always a little baffled by the delta between beer/wine licenses and full liquor licenses. Is the right to sell hard liquor really worth 6+ times the right to sell just beer and wine? I get that cocktails have higher margins than beer and wine, but they're also sold in much lower volume. Are there other limitations to beer/wine licenses that I don't understand?
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As far as I know there's no other difference between licenses (click for more information than you would ever want about MA's liquor license laws) except for which type of alcohol you can serve. I think the difference in price comes purely from the increased demand for liquor (or rather, the lack of demand for just beer and wine).

What kind of establishments would be fine serving only beer and wine? A quiet beer bar, brewery tap room, or a wine bar come to mind. A late-night style restaurant might also want to be able to offer beer with their pizza but not really care about liquor.

Any moderate-to-high-end restaurant would want a full license since a lot of people drink cocktails with their dinner. Any sort of establishment where they're catering to the young/party crowd would also need to sell liquor. Clubs and lounges need full liquor licenses. Hotels need full liquor licenses.

I'd guess it's about a 1:2 split between the former and the latter in terms of demand. On the supply side I have no idea if the state limits the supply by category or if the limit is just in aggregate. If it's an aggregate limit then it makes sense that the full liquor license is so much more valuable since so many more establishments would want it.
 
FenwayResident said:
What kind of establishments would be fine serving only beer and wine? A quiet beer bar, brewery tap room, or a wine bar come to mind. A late-night style restaurant might also want to be able to offer beer with their pizza but not really care about liquor.

Any moderate-to-high-end restaurant would want a full license since a lot of people drink cocktails with their dinner. .
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One the best restaurants in the entire city (IMO of course) is beer and wine only. http://row34.com/ It's also one of the toughest reservations in town.
 
JumboBuc said:
How does this explain why full liquor licenses trade for 6x as much? There are more wine/beer permits than full liquor permits, yes. On the market, wine/beer permits and full liquor permits are substitutes. In order for one to trade for 6x the price it must return 6x the value to holders.

It's surprising to me that the right to sell hard liquor returns 6x the value of the right to sell just beer and wine.
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People want a choice, whether to drink liquor or not. When people socialise it's often in groups and more often than not, one of the group drinks liquor and mostly, in my experience its females, not always. Restaurants and bars with only B/W licenses tend to have somewhat of a 'stigma', even really successful ones like Row 34, which has an outstanding reputation for seafood and it's tap list.

It wouldn't surprise me to see Row 34 adding a full liquor license in the future, now that it is so successful.
 
JANAM said:
It wouldn't surprise me to see Row 34 adding a full liquor license in the future, now that it is so successful.
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Not sure what you mean by "now that it is so successful." That place has been jammed since day one which was almost 5 years ago now (a long time for a restaurant). I highly doubt they buy a liquor license.
 
Boston has a bunch of new licenses that are restricted to certain areas and may not be resold. If no longer used, they must be returned to the City. I'll have to look up the exact numbers.
 
La Casa de Pedro in the Seaport has filed for bankruptcy and apparently will sell the 2 year old restaurant in the Seaport per the BBJ
 
falcon42 said:
La Casa de Pedro in the Seaport has filed for bankruptcy and apparently will sell the 2 year old restaurant in the Seaport per the BBJ
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Further proving my point from the previous page that it is all but impossible for a non-steakhouse or chain to make the economics work for a sit down restaurant in the Seaport. Sad reality of the extremely quick growth of the area.
 
Agreed they also have a massive space and they tried a takeout concept but that didn't seem to catch on.
 
The food was just OK. I was in The Wharf area of DC Wednesday night and it reminded me of the Seaport in some ways. The restaurants there were eccentric (or at least not steakhouses) but glitzy and well reputed. And also, as a result, expensive. And they were all jam-packed on a Wednesday night. I couldn't sit at bar or at a table for one at Del Mar de Fabio at 830pm! It's Spanish Pintos for pete's sakes! So I settled for French a few doors down.

So I think you could get eccentric places to succeed in the Seaport but they need to be glitzy, well-rupted and cater to a upscale crowd. Casa Del Pedro - while good - was maybe just eccentric for the area.
 
Place was always dead...overpriced and not that good...writing on the wall.
 
FortPointGuy said:
The food was just OK. I was in The Wharf area of DC Wednesday night and it reminded me of the Seaport in some ways. The restaurants there were eccentric (or at least not steakhouses) but glitzy and well reputed. And also, as a result, expensive. And they were all jam-packed on a Wednesday night. I couldn't sit at bar or at a table for one at Del Mar de Fabio at 830pm! It's Spanish Pintos for pete's sakes! So I settled for French a few doors down.
.....
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Del Mar is not ordinary.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/life...22769454f82_story.html?utm_term=.ae2c286b3838

The chef/owner, Fabio Trabocchi, has several other highly regarded restaurants in DC. One, Fiola Mare, was reviewed after opening as being frequented by plastic surgeons and their clients.

VGOX3VH7ZAI6PBVZREEHIPDZ3U.jpg

The bar at Del Mar
 
Envoy's roofdeck bar appears to be undergoing a major renovation to double in size in the Seaport.
 
cjbski said:
Envoy's roofdeck bar appears to be undergoing a major renovation to double in size in the Seaport.
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Interesting. Pretty much a no-brainer, considering how successful it's been and how long a wait there practically always is to get up there during the nice weather. It's kind of surprising that they didn't build it to be bigger in the first place (it only covers about 1/3 of the roof).

The Globe says it opens for the season this Saturday.
 
JumboBuc said:
Interesting. Pretty much a no-brainer, considering how successful it's been and how long a wait there practically always is to get up there during the nice weather. It's kind of surprising that they didn't build it to be bigger in the first place (it only covers about 1/3 of the roof).

The Globe says it opens for the season this Saturday.
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I agree, I always thought it was surprisingly small.
 
Soo I went to the new Wegmans at the Natick Mall. Not sure what to make of it as a grocery store but literally like half of the upper floor is taken up by restaurants and prepared food stations. It's kind of strange but I still have to say this is a good use of vacant property at a mall even though the Golden Triangle isn't exactly a food desert.

I don't know what it is about the Natick Mall but driving around there is kind of a disaster even though I don't think the volume really is all that much.
 
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