The New Retail Thread

[bigpicture7]

Wondering if anyone who frequents Downtown Crossing can comment on the general street-level environment for retail, restaurants, etc.? Is it reasonably healthy? How extensive are the vacancies? My cousin works for San Francisco, which is really struggling in this area, and was very curious about how Boston is doing. My general sense is that Newbury Street seems to be doing fine. In some ways it seems a bit insulated because it is a tourist attraction in itself for its architecture/history and the stores are smaller scale/boutique-y. My sense (I don't get Downtown enough) is that DTX has more challenges, but probably not to the extent of Union Square in SF, where the major mall is now like 75% vacant. Is that a fair read? Do things seem to be on the up and up?

Since you seem to be asking for commentary and not hard data, I will indulge in sharing what I sense.
-DTX is a mixed bag, but honestly not too bad. I generally agree with @Justbuildit above in terms of issues/bright spots. But I will say that I really sense that the issues (in terms of retail vacancies and foot traffic issues) largely date to pre-pandemic. The completion of the Millennium Tower/Burnham Building project and Godfrey Hotel project brightened the whole area up a lot, but other than that, there was a trend in declining retail long before March 2020. Don't get me wrong, the DTX picture is not all sunshine and roses: there is too much vacancy. Yet there is usually decent-ish foot traffic. The way I would phrase it is that there's still a solid foundation to work with: if the city can figure out policy to boost retail entrepreneurship and for some of the older buildings to get more residential into their upper floors (conversions, etc), then it honestly really could be something special (it's a big IF).
-FiDi, on the other hand, is the real issue for Boston. It's slow during the week due to hybrid work, but during the weekend it is completely dead. FiDi was never huge on retail and nightlife before the pandemic either, but there was some; now however, it has been decimated probably more any any other neighborhood. I know the city is aware/working on it (declaring it an improvement zone or whatever) but it is nonetheless worth noting that it's probably Boston's main issue vacancies-wise/foot-traffic-wise these days.
-Newbury St. is absolutely packed (at least all of the several times I've been there over the past year, both weekday and weekend). And it has almost no visible retail vacancy.
-Back Bay more broadly is still recovering somewhat since the pandemic, but is generally strong and looking pretty bright.
-Seaport is hopping
All in all, Boston is doing quite solidly compared to what I've read about other cities
(interested in any others' corroborating/refuting sentiments on any of above)

 

[Nibbles O’Plenty]

I pass through DTX fairly regularly and shop/eat there from time to time. I have friends in some of the luxury buildings there as well and have a habit of walking around late at night rather than taking cars, so I've seen it all at different times. The thing about "Downtown" is that it's like 4 micro neighborhoods.

1. Summer/Winter corridor between Tremont and, say, Devonshire (including part of the Ladder Streets and Tremont fronting the Common)
2. Theater district, on Washington from Boylston to West St (also including part of the Ladder Streets)
3. Pure financial district with the epicenter around Post Office Square reaching out to the greenway east-ish
4. Government Center limited by the backside of Beacon Hill/West End and encompassing Quincy Market and Faneuil Hall

(3) is super quiet outside of peak business hours and (4) is either dead or full of tourists depending on the weather. (2) ebbs and flows with theater shows, AMC movie times, and a few great bars on West and Temple. (1) is clearly the area with the most "issues" especially if you include Washington 1 block on either side of its intersection with Summer/Winter. I'd have no worries walking through (3) at 4AM, while I miiiight think twice about strolling through (1).

All 4 of these regions need more restaurants and bars, but they particularly need housing so that there's a steady flow of people and not just peak-trough waves of visitors tied to shows and the 8 hour workday 3 days per week.

To your specific questions, things are absolutely better than the low point of the pandemic. It was outright spooky where the streets would be just 3 guys in wheelchairs, pushing themselves backwards down Washington Street. There are too many vacancies and the little movement there is (WNDR museum, some outdoor seasonal programming) doesn't seem to move the needle much. Roche Brothers is a staple as is the Macy's, and things would get much much worse if either of those closed. An anchor tenant restaurant back in the Millennium Tower would also be a godsend since Pabu closed during the pandemic.

My optimistic brain sees some green shoots, particularly around Temple Place where there's a great run of bars, restaurants, and cafes, with a few more on the way. George Howell (technically on Washington), JM Curley's/Bogies/Wig Shop, Cafe Bonjour, Democracy Brewing, Hobgoblin, and an upcoming trio of new spots from Jamie Bissonette will do a ton to anchor that particular stretch, especially since they stay open late. There were plans for two infill hotels on blocks just off Tremont, one of which is approved I think, but I haven't seen any sign of construction. Hopefully the new Holocaust museum just down from the Statehouse will also do something to move some of the stickier characters off the block.

It's a lot, I know, but Boston is lucky to be quite safe and never feel totally hollowed out (other than ~Apr-May 2020). Recovery takes a long time, so hoping we don't have backsliding in the coming years.

Downscale Crossing is a mess. So much empty space. Sketchy crowd much of the time. I would not hold out much hope for Macy’s to stay open much longer. They have had too much trouble in there.

 

[kdmc]

(4) is either dead or full of tourists depending on the weather.

I'd give Gov Center (4) a bit more credit, especially Union St and Faneuil, which as far as I can tell is bustling with both locals & tourists every Friday and Saturday night year-round. It seems like a lot of people go out to eat in the North End and then walk over to Gov Center for the Hennessy's, Bell in Hand, Black Rose, Ned's, etc.

 

[DBM]

Downscale Crossing is a mess. So much empty space. Sketchy crowd much of the time. I would not hold out much hope for Macy’s to stay open much longer. They have had too much trouble in there.

Lol, that Macy's is surely one of the most wildly profitable Macy's stores within the entire chain; it's always packed whenever I'm cutting through it. The chain is closing more than 100 stores underperforming stores, and of course the DTX one is not on the list. The only way I can foresee the DTX location closing is if the entire chain goes under... (which of course can certainly happen).

Have you even bothered to step foot in it to notice how constantly packed it is, or do you just let your class prejudices vs. the entire neighborhood blind you to the obvious reality?

 

[BostonObserver]

Try googling

boston macy tasers

 

[Java King]

My unscientific opinion is that it depend a lot on the weather! I was in DTX one late afternoon on a beautiful September day, and it seemed quite busy. The ladder district streets had outdoor dining, taking up some parking spaces, which really helped to activate those streets. I was very impressed by the people and activity even though there was quite a bit of vacancy on Washington Street.

However, I visited just a few weeks ago and it was a different story. MUCH quieter with the cold weather, and it seemed kind of depressing.

When I first moved here in the 1980's, I remember glass arcades along Washington Street that kind of protected you from the weather a bit. The glass/plastic had become stained with bird poop, and they looked pretty junky. I think they were dismantled in the late 80's or early 90's. The implementation was bad, but the idea of having something like that is solid, in my opinion. I noticed in Copenhagen that had lights strung across pedestrian streets, and it looked really nice. DTX does this at Christmas, but something more permanent would be nice. The Copenhagen pedestrian street almost seemed like a beautiful outdoor dining area with thousands of twinkle lights and tons of outdoor dining options as you walk along the street. Personally, I think that option could work really well here in DTX.

It's hard to see the lights in the daytime, but they are there.

 

[Nibbles O’Plenty]

Lol, that Macy's is surely one of the most wildly profitable Macy's stores within the entire chain; it's always packed whenever I'm cutting through it. The chain is closing more than 100 stores underperforming stores, and of course the DTX one is not on the list. The only way I can foresee the DTX location closing is if the entire chain goes under... (which of course can certainly happen).

Have you even bothered to step foot in it to notice how constantly packed it is, or do you just let your class prejudices vs. the entire neighborhood blind you to the obvious reality?

When I have been in there, customers are sparse and employees do not look very happy. I actually like the store. There are many problems there though.

 

[DBM]

When I have been in there, customers are sparse and employees do not look very happy. I actually like the store. There are many problems there though.

Oh, go on, do tell about these many so-called "problems." And when I say "tell," I mean--please supply links to incidents that were so heinous, they actually warranted local media coverage.

Just remember: if, on the extremely unlikely chance, you can supply links to just FIVE* local media stories involving serious crime at the DTX Macy's since February 2019, then that means, averaged-out, the store is basically still only experiencing ONE major incident a year.

*FIVE as in, five separate incidents, not all the local networks covering the same incident, x5.

However, I'm extremely skeptical you can find even five. After all, this isn't Portland (OR), San Francisco, Seattle, or LA--which is to say, our retail crime issue is nowhere near as severe as it is on the West Coast. Which of course I'm sure you're aware of... so why do you succumb to this Fox News mentality?

Also, are you really making the argument the DTX Macy's is going to be closed because the employees don't look happy?

 

[Nibbles O’Plenty]

Teens, 13 and 15, charged after Macy's worker stabbed at Downtown Crossing

Boston police arrested two teenage boys near Downtown Crossing on Monday following a stabbing incident at the Macy’s at 450 Washington Street.

www.boston.com

911 records show dozens of calls for disturbances, violence at Boston Macyâs

Boston 25 reviewed hundreds of 911 calls made to 450 Washington St. between Jan. 1, 2022, and Aug. 7, 2023.

www.boston25news.com

Dorchester Man Accused of Dealing Drugs and Stealing Inside of Macy's in Boston

A man was arrested at a downtown Boston Macy’s Friday, accused of shoplifting and dealing drugs inside the store, according to authorities. Police say Edison Arias, a 29-year-old man from the city’s Dorchester neighborhood, was seen by Macy’s security dealing drugs inside the store on Washington...

www.nbcboston.com

At least nobody has been killed in there, unlike Philadelphia Macy’s.

 

[bigpicture7]

Teens, 13 and 15, charged after Macy's worker stabbed at Downtown Crossing

Boston police arrested two teenage boys near Downtown Crossing on Monday following a stabbing incident at the Macy’s at 450 Washington Street.

www.boston.com

911 records show dozens of calls for disturbances, violence at Boston Macyâs

Boston 25 reviewed hundreds of 911 calls made to 450 Washington St. between Jan. 1, 2022, and Aug. 7, 2023.

www.boston25news.com

Dorchester Man Accused of Dealing Drugs and Stealing Inside of Macy's in Boston

A man was arrested at a downtown Boston Macy’s Friday, accused of shoplifting and dealing drugs inside the store, according to authorities. Police say Edison Arias, a 29-year-old man from the city’s Dorchester neighborhood, was seen by Macy’s security dealing drugs inside the store on Washington...

www.nbcboston.com

At least nobody has been killed in there, unlike Philadelphia Macy’s.

Oh come on Nibbles, my long-retired mother had to deal with constant crap like this at a suburban Marshalls 25+ years ago. I am not saying this stuff is good or acceptable, but what is your baseline? Malls, shopping centers, urban shopping districts, big box stores have LONG had a problem with kids hanging out, dealing drugs, fighting each other over girls, shoplifting, etc. Yes it needs to be taken seriously and mitigated, but "loss prevention" and "physical security" have been huge budget line items for big name retailers since forever. Not to mention, the pandemic produced an across-the-board uptick in this sh!t everywhere. How does dowtown Boston compared to other downtowns? How does this Macy's compare to other Macy's? As someone said upthread, sure, the entire Macy's chain might tank, but that's not a DTX problem.

 

[bigpicture7]

...It is why businesses close though...

Nope. Businesses close because they are not profitable. Market economics, really. Check out the Target in Central Square, Camb. Lots of theft. Yet a highly profitable store. So they put a bunch of merchandise behind lock and key, and cordoned off the wine isle. Annoying, yes. Should anyone be happy with that, no. Sign of a dying city, hell no.
Again, what is your baseline and how does downtown Boston and that Macy's compare to it? And no you don't get "my agenda."

 

[Nibbles O’Plenty]

Nope. Businesses close because they are not profitable. Market economics, really. Check out the Target in Central Square, Camb. Lots of theft. Yet a highly profitable store. So they put a bunch of merchandise behind lock and key, and cordoned off the wine isle. Annoying, yes. Should anyone be happy with that, no. Sign of a dying city, hell no.
Again, what is your baseline and how does downtown Boston and that Macy's compare to it? And no you don't get "my agenda."

OK. The Fox News dismiss was from DBM. I will edit. This still applies though. Your angle is, everything fine, nothing to see here. Macy’s has not been hesitant to close stores in declining areas, which sadly is much of the urban US these days. It happens all the time. Look what happened in San Francisco. Macy’s pulled the plug in Seattle. I think the way they did not even bother with a Christmas tree is a bad sign.

Dori: Downtown Macy's closure sad but predictable, thanks to city policies

The downtown Macy's, a Seattle landmark, is closing. Sadly, this is the kind of thing that we saw coming for two very distinct reasons.

mynorthwest.com

 

[bigpicture7]

You really gave away your agenda when you tried to dismiss and denigrate me or any person that would possibly disagree with you as watching Fox News...

Dude, that was a separate person from me upthread who made that comment.
Secondly, I am not saying "everything is fine." Do you think I am celebrating the security measures Target had to put in place in Central? Far from it, I think it sucks. What I am saying is that, if business is strong enough, companies will not let security challenges shut them down, and that they have always had to face these challenges to different extents. If the business potential is strong enough, and businesses invest, then it can have a positive reinforcing effect on neighborhoods. Let me be clear: I do not think crime is OK. But let me also be clear, I am not the same person as someone else who has been responding to your posts.

 

[DBM]

(bigpicture7: do you want to be the one to inform Nibbles that several other large retailers--DSW, HomeGoods, Marshalls, Old Navy, Primark, just off the top of my head--have had the audacity to remain open for years in DTX, despite Nibbles' feelings about things being "unwell"? If he takes such a personal affront at Macy's persistence in the neighborhood, I can't imagine how exasperated he must get at the others' temerity...)

 

[bigpicture7]

(bigpicture7: do you want to be the one to inform Nibbles that several other large retailers--DSW, HomeGoods, Marshalls, Old Navy, Primark, just off the top of my head--have had the audacity to remain open for years in DTX, despite Nibbles' feelings about things being "unwell"? If he takes such a personal affront at Macy's persistence in the neighborhood, I can't imagine how exasperated he must get at the others' temerity...)

(DBM: nah, I think you've got that covered well already. But perhaps while you're at it, you could mention the large always-busy Roche Brothers supermarket, a TJ Maxx, two Cafe Neros, a Tatte, a CVS, George Howell coffee, several upscale restaurants - RUKA, Yvonne's, Legal Crossing, MAST, haley-henry, a CVS, a Ritz-Carlton hotel, a Hyatt Hotel, Hotel Godfrey, several run-of-the-mill restaurants - a McDonald's, a Shake Shack, a Luke's Lobster, a Five Guys, a Wendy's, a Sweetgreen, a small retail mall, Ogawa Coffee, the Omni Parker House hotel, at least one sushi place I can't remember the name of, The Merchant bar, ...all within a two-block radius...off the top of my head, and yes that was actually off the top of my head)

 

[Nibbles O’Plenty]

(bigpicture7: do you want to be the one to inform Nibbles that several other large retailers--DSW, HomeGoods, Marshalls, Old Navy, Primark, just off the top of my head--have had the audacity to remain open for years in DTX, despite Nibbles' feelings about things being "unwell"? If he takes such a personal affront at Macy's persistence in the neighborhood, I can't imagine how exasperated he must get at the others' temerity...)

Primark got rid of two of their shopping floors. Certainly not a sign of booming business. I

(bigpicture7: do you want to be the one to inform Nibbles that several other large retailers--DSW, HomeGoods, Marshalls, Old Navy, Primark, just off the top of my head--have had the audacity to remain open for years in DTX, despite Nibbles' feelings about things being "unwell"? If he takes such a personal affront at Macy's persistence in the neighborhood, I can't imagine how exasperated he must get at the others' temerity...)

Primark closed two of its shopping floors and is about half the size it once was. And the Marshalls, TJ Max and Home Goods have a large part of ownership of the building.

 

[Nibbles O’Plenty]

(DBM: nah, I think you've got that covered well already. But perhaps while you're at it, you could mention the large always-busy Roche Brothers supermarket, a TJ Maxx, two Cafe Neros, a Tatte, a CVS, George Howell coffee, several upscale restaurants - RUKA, Yvonne's, Legal Crossing, MAST, haley-henry, a CVS, a Ritz-Carlton hotel, a Hyatt Hotel, Hotel Godfrey, several run-of-the-mill restaurants - a McDonald's, a Shake Shack, a Luke's Lobster, a Five Guys, a Wendy's, a Sweetgreen, a small retail mall, Ogawa Coffee, the Omni Parker House hotel, at least one sushi place I can't remember the name of, The Merchant bar, ...all within a two-block radius...off the top of my head, and yes that was actually off the top of my head)

The CVS closed. If you want to believe everything is so fine there, good for you. We will see what will happen. Most of the places you mention do not look like they are doing gangbuster business to me. I hope for a comeback of the area, because it used to be great.

 

[bigpicture7]

The CVS closed. If you want to believe everything is so fine there, good for you. We will see what will happen. Most of the places you mention do not look like they are doing gangbuster business to me. I hope for a comeback of the area, because it used to be great.

No, actually, it did not. It moved. There are actually two currently-open CVSs within two blocks of that Macy's, and a third one within three blocks of that Macy's.

Hey, @Smuttynose, I think we have your answer: DTX has some real challenges, but given the once-per-century-apocalyptic-event the world just went through, now that I've had some time to reflect on this, I think we can conclude that Boston's gritty old downtown shopping district is probably thriving as much as anyone could hope such a district could be, given everything it's been up against. Hope that helps for your friend.

 

[Nibbles O’Plenty]

No, actually, it did not. It moved. There are actually two currently-open CVSs within two blocks of that Macy's, and a third one within three blocks of that Macy's.

Hey, @Smuttynose, I think we have your answer: DTX has some real challenges, but given the once-per-century-apocalyptic-event the world just went through, now that I've had some time to reflect on this, I think we can conclude that Boston's gritty old downtown shopping district is probably thriving as much as anyone could hope such a district could be, given everything it's been up against. Hope that helps for your friend.

The one on Winter St. closed. The one on Summer Street closed. Went out of business, not moved. There is one at South Station which is not Downtown Crossing and one down by Essex Street is not really DTX either. One left on Washington St. Do you work in the Mayor’s office?

No, actually, it did not. It moved. There are actually two currently-open CVSs within two blocks of that Macy's, and a third one within three blocks of that Macy's.

Hey, @Smuttynose, I think we have your answer: DTX has some real challenges, but given the once-per-century-apocalyptic-event the world just went through, now that I've had some time to reflect on this, I think we can conclude that Boston's gritty old downtown shopping district is probably thriving as much as anyone could hope such a district could be, given everything it's been up against. Hope that helps for your friend.

 

[617]

Dtx suffers from vacancies and retail that isn’t exciting/run down - completely different from back bay and seaport. dtx with thousands of new apts would do wonders for the area…it’s annoying that it’s so slow to happen. As someone mentioned these issues were around before Covid.