statler
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The Return of the Streetcar?
- Thread starter JimboJones
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Equilibria
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I'm currently in Portland, OR, which has a successful and well-used city-run streetcar (as opposed to the MBTA-like transit authority). While it works over short distances, streetcars run slow in mixed traffic, and the longer the line is, the more of a pain this will be. Portland is making the mistake of extending its streetcar line, making the ride from both ends into the center a little frustrating.
Frankly, a streetcar in Boston (which is a fantastic idea as described above) would have to be city-built, since the T can't get their own projects from 15 years ago completed. It would also have to give useful service to an under-served area, like the North End or the Navy Yard. I initially conceived this as a functional line with actual vintage trolleys (courtesy of the Seashore Trolley Museum in Maine), but I do see the other side of that coin. The novelty aspect would discourage serious use.
Honestly, my biggest worry about a streetcar from N. Station to S. Station is that the T would see that as an excuse to forget about the heavy rail tunnel, which would still be sorely needed. It isn't like they'll ever build it anyway, but at least it's always on the wish list.
Frankly, a streetcar in Boston (which is a fantastic idea as described above) would have to be city-built, since the T can't get their own projects from 15 years ago completed. It would also have to give useful service to an under-served area, like the North End or the Navy Yard. I initially conceived this as a functional line with actual vintage trolleys (courtesy of the Seashore Trolley Museum in Maine), but I do see the other side of that coin. The novelty aspect would discourage serious use.
Honestly, my biggest worry about a streetcar from N. Station to S. Station is that the T would see that as an excuse to forget about the heavy rail tunnel, which would still be sorely needed. It isn't like they'll ever build it anyway, but at least it's always on the wish list.
I've been drawing up this streetcar network for Boston over the past several months on Google Earth:
Idealistic though it may be, does anyone have any comments for it? Any areas underserved? Any missing routes?
I'm not done with it yet, and am thinking about adding routes in Quincy and the North Shore. The long branch line runs to Framingham.
Idealistic though it may be, does anyone have any comments for it? Any areas underserved? Any missing routes?
I'm not done with it yet, and am thinking about adding routes in Quincy and the North Shore. The long branch line runs to Framingham.
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This is great. What is it based on? I have on my Flickr old maps that show trolley routes through Boston inthe 1920s if you wanted to use that as a reference.
Yes and no. It's true that the FTA is strongly skewed towards buses at the moment, but the T has been bustituting lines and fighting light rail expansion for a long time now. The Deus Ex Machina intervention of Deval Patrick is the only thing that brought the Green Line extension to Somerville and Medford back from the dead after another last-minute won't-the-community-just-give-up-already delay, and talk of building a BRT line in place of the extension.
Other, historically anti-transit cities have managed to put together impressive light rail systems over the course of the past decade. We get the Silver Line and Urban Ring buses while we're busy begging the T for three-car trains on the Green Line.
Something is very wrong here.
statler
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^^ To be fair, other 'anti-transit' cities usually don't have 100 year old transit systems to maintain.
I'm not saying I agree with it but I just don't see it as "Yea! Buses are great!" thing so much as a "We can't afford to keep building more of this shit anymore" thing.
I'm sure if the the T had adequate funding we would see more true light & heavy rail.
I'm not saying I agree with it but I just don't see it as "Yea! Buses are great!" thing so much as a "We can't afford to keep building more of this shit anymore" thing.
I'm sure if the the T had adequate funding we would see more true light & heavy rail.
I would definitely like to see a N-S axis of streetcars along the Greenway (the "rose" line?). In my mind, the bulk of traffic would travel between N and S Stations with a few stops along the corridor for office workers (High Street, State Street, etc.), and some for tourists (Aquarium, Faneuil Hall), then spur it off to the Navy Yard and back. Clean, modern and *quiet* trolleys.
statler
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^^ I think that only works with manufacturing concerns.
I'm pretty sure the Chinese owners would still need to adhere to local labor and wage laws, so I'm not sure they would be able to realize any more profit than an American outfit could, which is to say, none.
I'm pretty sure the Chinese owners would still need to adhere to local labor and wage laws, so I'm not sure they would be able to realize any more profit than an American outfit could, which is to say, none.
This is based mainly on what looked to me like good corridors--wide streets with thick development along them. A lot of important connections are missing here because it doesn't show my proposals for the T itself (which are, in fact, often inspired by your website).
I could post those in a different thread, or right here too.
On a related note, here's my current proposal for regional rail in Massachusetts. Martha's Vineyard would get a line, but I haven't sketched it in yet. And yes, this one IS based on old rail lines.
belmont square
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If only we could build more light rail lines we could have the largest light rail network on the continent. Instead we just have the largest light rail network on the continent.
Charlie_mta
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Huh?
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If you are making a joke then you FAIL cause San Fran has a much more extensive network, not including Cable Cars either.
^^^
So then it could probably stand some expansion, right? The fact that it's heavily used doesn't mean it's perfect, just that it's popular. Definitely a good sign for expansion. Hell, it would be good enough just to bring the whole system up to date. The stations are a mess, the trains are a mess, etc...
So then it could probably stand some expansion, right? The fact that it's heavily used doesn't mean it's perfect, just that it's popular. Definitely a good sign for expansion. Hell, it would be good enough just to bring the whole system up to date. The stations are a mess, the trains are a mess, etc...
True enough--with the following caveat.
The central Tremont Street subway is maxed out in terms of traffic--and it is common for streetcars to wait to enter stations. Similarly, some stations (especially Park Street) are pretty much as maximum capacity in terms of number of passengers.
That said, expansion towards Sommerville will not increase the number of trains passing through the central subway. And Sommerville passengers would use the opposite platforms as riders to and from the western suburbs. Thus, Sommerville expansion is copacetic with existing service.
On the other hand, expanding service to the south or west (say, by adding a southbound line that would run down Washington Street) would aggravate the afore mentioned capacity problems.
It really is unfortunate that the Tremont street subway was not designed to modern standards--but given that it is the first subway in America and dates from 1897, Boston has gotten a lot of use out of this piece of infrastructure.
I agree