Thompson's Point, Portland

More on The Forefront at Thompson's Point from The Portland Daily Sun.....



Forefront amphitheater subject to change at workshop
Written by David Carkhuff
A workshop today should pave the way for a public hearing on The Forefront at Thompson's Point, a $100 million proposed development featuring an events center, hotel, sports medicine facility, parking structure, restaurant and two office buildings.
What's unclear is if an outdoor amphitheater will remain part of the plans.
"We have plans that are still fluid for an amphitheatre to potentially be used for music off of the convention center," said Bill Ryan Jr., one of the partners in the development. Other partners are Jon Jennings and Chris Thompson.
In the plans, an events center and music hall are attached, and a 19,600-square-foot, 2,500-seat outdoor amphitheater is located off of that complex.
"Modifications and or alternative layouts for the concert hall and amphitheater may be presented at the workshop," the planning application reads.
"We're moving forward, every day, it's obviously a complicated project, a lot of work, but we're extremely happy with the reception we've received with the city and the state," Ryan said.
Last April, the partners unveiled their plans for a 30-acre site that has sat largely undeveloped.
"It's one of the bigger if not the biggest projects we've seen in many years," said Bill Needelman, senior planner with the city.
Today at 3:30 p.m., city planners will conduct a workshop in the Portland City Council Chambers, second floor of City Hall at 389 Congress St., Portland. Today's workshop will include a presentation by the applicants, a review of outstanding issues by city staff, and the public will have opportunity to ask questions and provide comment, Needelman said. The planning board will not make any decisions, other than to determine whether the application is ready for a public hearing, he said.
"It's been under review since 2011, so the applicants hope to hold their public hearing after this planning board workshop," Needelman said.
This will be the fourth workshop on The Forefront. The city received a final plan submission in March, with several changes from a set of preliminary plans last September. The current first-phase plans include:
•*An 80,000-square-foot event center. This is also a practice facility for the Maine Red Claws NBA Development League team and a practice space for indoor soccer and lacrosse. The event center is designed to accommodate crowds of up to 3,500 people for Red Claws games.
• A 29,600-square-foot concert hall. Originally sized at 32,000 square feet, this concert hall will seat up to 4,500 people.
• An 80,000-square-foot hotel. Located next to the events center, the hotel will offer 125 rooms, a ballroom and meeting space.
•*A 24,000-square-foot sports medicine and physical fitness facility. Also next to the events center, this building is part of a 80,000-square-foot, five-story building. The developers added 2,000 square feet to the sports medicine facility.
• A 732-space parking garage. This structure, located next to the events center, also would serve the nearby Portland Transportation Center, which houses the Amtrak Downeaster train.
• 718 parking spaces.
• A 6,000-square-foot restaurant. Developers added 380 square feet to this building.
• A 60,000-square-foot office building. This building shrank by 20,000 square feet.
• A 120,000-square-foot office building. This building grew by 20,000 square feet.
• A public access trail and publicly accessible small boat launch and kayak access.
A second phase envisions two, 75,000-square-foot office buildings on the northwest corner of the site; a 34,000-square-foot building in the center of the site; a 20,000-square-foot restaurant and office complex on the south end of the peninsula; and 1,450 parking spaces.
Thompson's Point includes intertidal lands, with 20 acres of buildable construction site.
"Thompson's Point hasn't had much in the way of redevelopment in 100 years," said Ryan.
"We hope that it has a positive impact, and we think it will. We always said that area is a gateway to the city." Ryan said of the development.
With a 4,800-person capacity for concerts, Ryan said, The Forefront isn't expected to compete with a newly renovated Cumberland County Civic Center. Voters last fall approved a $33 million project to renovate the Civic Center in Portland.
"It's a different animal entirely, the Civic Center is a great building for hockey obviously which is its primary tenant, but it's a different building entirely," Ryan said.
"In scale, the performance venue falls between Merrill Auditorium and the Civic Center. We don't view it as any kind of competition with the Civic Center," he said.
 
Board members expressed support for the project and urged the developers to “push the boundaries” and design buildings that would create a dramatic gateway to the city.

“You have the opportunity to make a very good, very bold statement. You are going to be very visible,” said board Chair Carol Morrissette. “I don’t want to see a lot of flat buildings that belong in a suburban area. This is not suburban, where you are.”

In the second phase of the project, the developers should consider buildings taller than the current 65-foot limit in the area, she said.

http://www.pressherald.com/news/Thompsons-Point-developers-may-nix-concert-hall.html
 
Looks like (going by the comments/poll) many think Thompson Point complex will not be built. I still think it will be built, although again I don't see why they arent interested in renting the Civic center/or focusing on one arena. The Red Claws have sold out every home game since they started a few years back. I also think making the arena hold 4k and nixing the concert hall is smart move. What tenant would they have for the concert hall? The Portland expo arena holds 3k now, although it is by far the smallest and cramped arena in the NBA developmental League.
I agree with Carol Morrissette and they should make the building a little more "fancy" or urban-like, not like some office park you would find in a surburban industerial park.
 
I too hope the design is a progressive urban design.....id rather see less surface parking...but perhaps that can be changed in the future....
There may be more ammenities that could be added during future development that could spice this up and make it more of a destination....
 
The idea is to create a very centralized pedestrian friendly plaza, with outdoor dining and windows along the outside of the event center, which actually looks quite nice. Of course, the ped center exists by being subsidized by the perimeter parking that none of us want to see. There was some discussion last night about what happens should the development of phase II not materialize, and one member of the neighborhood said that if it does, perhaps there should even be a phase III, where someday in the future the parking lots could be developed as well, maybe with some housing there. It was refreshing to hear the neighborhood say this. I also brought up a question about shared parking and whether the idea has been broached before (this is my first workshop on this, yet it is the fifth and final workshop). I’m not even sure if a shared parking agreement would meet the required minimum. I’d be all for doing away with parking standards entirely, but the question is—where do I get the chance to make that decision? I don’t because it’s a legislative determination and this is not a legislative role. I like the comments of many people, because this is not a suburban location, yet at the same time I don’t want to delay the development by adding comments that are irrelevant to the context in which this project materialized instead choosing to advocate for a change at the broader structural level of revised zoning when appropriate. I do, and did, however, echo Morisette’s comments about taller buildings, which she is absolutely correct about and so I’m glad she brought it up even though the applicant didn’t, and the gateway comment was mine.
 
@Patrick -
I think a good role for the PB at this point would to be supportive of the current plan, while sending strong signals that you'll be advocating for higher buildings and less parking in Phase 2 (and possibly 3). And that would also entail asking staff to draw up suggested changes to the B5 zoning - which only applies to Thompsons Point, as far as I know - and possibly to the B6 and B7 zones too, which cover the eastern waterfront and Bayside.

I'd say that doing away with parking requirements in those zones should be possible from a policy perspective. Planners on staff could give themselves cover from the recommendations of the transit study, and from the experiences of other cities that have done it. Nashville, of all places, did away with center-city parking requirements two years ago now:
http://switchboard.nrdc.org/blogs/kbenfield/zoning_reform_strengthens_nash.html

...and the metro has been #3 nationally in construction job growth since the recession.

Seattle is also looking into the idea:

http://publicola.com/2012/03/30/eli...ments-is-not-the-same-as-prohibiting-parking/

Seattle is running into local opposition, but the neighborhood organizations in the B6 and B7 zones here - Bayside and India Street - definitively want less parking in their neighborhoods.

Still, all that said, it'll take some initiative from the Planning Board to get that ball rolling. It might be worth remarking, at an upcoming meeting, on the desires of neighborhood residents in Libbytown, Bayside, and the Eastern Waterfront to have fewer parking lots and garages dominating their neighborhoods, and directing planning staff to look into ways to reduce parking's burdens on developers and neighborhoods alike.
 
@Patrick -
I think a good role for the PB at this point would to be supportive of the current plan, while sending strong signals that you'll be advocating for higher buildings and less parking in Phase 2 (and possibly 3). And that would also entail asking staff to draw up suggested changes to the B5 zoning - which only applies to Thompsons Point, as far as I know - and possibly to the B6 and B7 zones too, which cover the eastern waterfront and Bayside.

I'd say that doing away with parking requirements in those zones should be possible from a policy perspective. Planners on staff could give themselves cover from the recommendations of the transit study, and from the experiences of other cities that have done it. Nashville, of all places, did away with center-city parking requirements two years ago now:
http://switchboard.nrdc.org/blogs/kbenfield/zoning_reform_strengthens_nash.html

...and the metro has been #3 nationally in construction job growth since the recession.

Seattle is also looking into the idea:

http://publicola.com/2012/03/30/eli...ments-is-not-the-same-as-prohibiting-parking/

Seattle is running into local opposition, but the neighborhood organizations in the B6 and B7 zones here - Bayside and India Street - definitively want less parking in their neighborhoods.

Still, all that said, it'll take some initiative from the Planning Board to get that ball rolling. It might be worth remarking, at an upcoming meeting, on the desires of neighborhood residents in Libbytown, Bayside, and the Eastern Waterfront to have fewer parking lots and garages dominating their neighborhoods, and directing planning staff to look into ways to reduce parking's burdens on developers and neighborhoods alike.

Thank you Christian, particularly for the Nashville link, which I look forward to reading. I think it is always good to have facts to support things that I intuitively agree with and support.

I've had issues with the urban design of the Forefront from the beginning, but there is only so much a developer can do in a project that is proposed within existing zoning, and so the issue may very well be the regs and not the proposal. I'm not saying this is the case here necessarily (because if you recall there was an entire New Urbanism site build out depicted in a C. Michael Lewis drawing envisioning what could be built on the site in 2007, and it looked great), but it often is with other projects. Let's hope phase II is more stunning.

The comments by Jaime Parker of Ptld Trails were highly relevant and well received by everyone on the board...and they referred to connecting not just the perimeter trail but the entire site to the rest of Portland. This project is the largest since the Maine Mall, and I just want to make sure it doesn't take the form of the Maine Mall. However, some development here, even if less than perfect, is certainly exciting nonetheless.

There is a June 6th meeting with GPCOG where the issue of form-based codes will be discussed as a component of the regional HUD grant, and this is important to the instant conversation because the performance standards of an FBC often include shared parking recommendations, which although could be implemented separately as well will almost certainly take a more central role in an FBC. I look forward to attending and seeing any of you there.
 
I am hoping they still build Thompson Point arena AKA The Forefront. I think this project will happen since the red claws ownership group has some money. Looks like Amtrack is dragging their feet on this one. Or is that an legitmite excuse for delaying the project? Still think they should make it hold closer to 4k-5k for basketball games and they should scrap the concert hall. Seems unnessary since there is already the Merrill Aud. and State Aud. Hopefully at the June 6th meeting there will be some headway and when it will be shovel ready.
 
I am hoping they still build Thompson Point arena AKA The Forefront. I think this project will happen since the red claws ownership group has some money. Looks like Amtrack is dragging their feet on this one. Or is that an legitmite excuse for delaying the project? Still think they should make it hold closer to 4k-5k for basketball games and they should scrap the concert hall. Seems unnessary since there is already the Merrill Aud. and State Aud. Hopefully at the June 6th meeting there will be some headway and when it will be shovel ready.

I see no reason why this might not go forward. It is, in my opinion, a mediocre project, off the beaten path, which won't add substantially to the feeling of Portland as a city. It'll just bring in some new activity to an already busy area (and not an enjoyable area). Its location has been criticized a lot, from the beginning. Amtrak isn't dragging their feet on this, from what I understand. One of the key discussions I've heard is whether this will be a transit oriented development or merely transit adjacent. I'd be more excited about what phase II might be able to offer if the height restrictions are relaxed. This site has potential to be a gateway, visually, and not much more (because it's disconnected from downtown).
 
Thats great news.....I cant wait to see the finished product!!
 
Wonder who else they have lined up? The restaurant is going to have to be sports and kid friendly. Hooters sounds about right!
 
I remember seeing various reports on Jon Jennings in the last month but I don't think I caught this one which has an interesting paragraph in it

http://www.pressherald.com/news/Ex-...istant-manager-for-So-Portland.html?pagenum=1

The developers are still locking in financing for the first phase of The Forefront at Thompson's Point, which is estimated to cost upwards of $100 million, Thompson said.

The group is close to signing tenants for the development, including a major office tenant, he said, but he would not disclose who those tenants are.

There has been speculation that South Portland-based WEX, formerly Wright Express, is a prospective tenant. WEX officials have confirmed that the company is exploring its options for expansion but would not comment about Thompson's Point.

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The "including a major office tenant" is what has to be triggered to get this going. Interesting
 

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