Transitmatters/Sierra Club bus electrification report

Tallguy

Active Member
Joined
May 2, 2018
Messages
291
Reaction score
96
For those for whom "transitmatters sierra bus report" is too much effort to type;),
 

bakgwailo

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2016
Messages
1,132
Reaction score
213
For those for whom "transitmatters sierra bus report" is too much effort to type;),
Wow, nice. Fully support a push to more trackless trolleys/overhead instead of battery-only buses.
 

vanshnookenraggen

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
May 25, 2006
Messages
6,730
Reaction score
858
For those for whom "transitmatters sierra bus report" is too much effort to type;),
You went through the trouble of starting a new thread, the least you could do is include the actual report.
 

jass

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2006
Messages
4,993
Reaction score
565
I will read the report later, but if it doesnt start by recommending SL2 have wire strung up immediately, the whole thing is trash
 

BostonTrainGuy

Active Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2020
Messages
133
Reaction score
91
I will read the report later, but if it doesnt start by recommending SL2 have wire strung up immediately, the whole thing is trash
Do you think it is possible to run wire through the tunnel for SL1?
 

Tallguy

Active Member
Joined
May 2, 2018
Messages
291
Reaction score
96
I will read the report later, but if it doesnt start by recommending SL2 have wire strung up immediately, the whole thing is trash
There is enough wire for SL2 already
 

stick n move

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2009
Messages
7,684
Reaction score
2,749
The point of using the electric infrastructure we already have and adding to it vs tearing it down to use some new technology is such a key point. How stupid would it be to tear down the existing catenary wires just to run battery electric busses underneath? What a waste. It should be obvious that you want to use the battery electric busses to fill the routes with no infrastructure using diesel busses, thats a much better solution to where they should be placed when they come in. Plus we know how the overhead powered busses work, theyre tried and tested, the maintenance infrastructure is there, workers…etc. Replace ALL of the diesel busses first before even considering replacing the overhead electric powered busses.
 

Brattle Loop

Active Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2020
Messages
244
Reaction score
338
Do you think it is possible to run wire through the tunnel for SL1?
I wonder if there might be some jurisdictional problems, I can easily envision some federal standard forbidding overhead wires on Interstate highways. Honestly if you wired the airport routes (would help the shuttle buses there too) and the SL3, you could probably use a battery-electric/trackless hybrid to bridge the gap between the Transitway and the airport roads.

The point of using the electric infrastructure we already have and adding to it vs tearing it down to use some new technology is such a key point. How stupid would it be to tear down the existing catenary wires just to run battery electric busses underneath? What a waste. It should be obvious that you want to use the battery electric busses to fill the routes with no infrastructure using diesel busses, thats a much better solution to where they should be placed when they come in. Plus we know how the overhead powered busses work, theyre tried and tested, the maintenance infrastructure is there, workers…etc. Replace ALL of the diesel busses first before even considering replacing the overhead electric powered busses.
Agreed, except for it'd be a good idea to supplement or replace existing electric buses with extended-range electric buses to some of the routes glomming off the existing catenary can be full-electrified. Someone with more technical expertise could answer the question of whether battery-electric/trackless hybrids would have the range to run the 77 to Arlington running and charging under the wire from Harvard to North Cambridge, say. (Wouldn't that be nice, piggybacking off the existing infrastructure to eliminate the diesels instead of planning to do the opposite? Is it permanently opposite day at 10 Park Plaza or something?)
 

donkeybutlers

Active Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2021
Messages
144
Reaction score
177
Here is the actual report since so far the only link is to street blogs coverage of it

These are interesting charts. Electric is way cheaper in fuel costs and maintenance (and according to this just slightly the overall cheapest). The biggest barrier is that initial price point, which will likely come down as more cities do this and the technology matures. Its also not like the hybrids are all that much cheaper up front either. Electric has benefits for public health that far exceed the other options (and this may even understate the benefit based on the scale).
Screen Shot 2021-09-30 at 8.19.17 PM.png
Screen Shot 2021-09-30 at 8.12.10 PM.png

This is a very substantial lifetime savings for electric over hybrid (although there would need to be infrastructure investments to make it possible)
Screen Shot 2021-09-30 at 8.15.39 PM.png

This is also a telling figure, it shows hybridization isn't even really half-assing it when it comes to environmental and health benefits:
Screen Shot 2021-09-30 at 8.17.33 PM.png
Screen Shot 2021-09-30 at 8.22.44 PM.png

The phase maps are also very interesting and do seem like a workable strategy to build out the network:
Screen Shot 2021-09-30 at 8.24.11 PM.png
Screen Shot 2021-09-30 at 8.24.38 PM.png
Screen Shot 2021-09-30 at 8.24.53 PM.png
Screen Shot 2021-09-30 at 8.25.14 PM.png
Screen Shot 2021-09-30 at 8.25.26 PM.png

Seems like a very well thought out proposal. I hope it succeeds.
 
Last edited:

Tallguy

Active Member
Joined
May 2, 2018
Messages
291
Reaction score
96
I wonder if there might be some jurisdictional problems, I can easily envision some federal standard forbidding overhead wires on Interstate highways. Honestly if you wired the airport routes (would help the shuttle buses there too) and the SL3, you could probably use a battery-electric/trackless hybrid to bridge the gap between the Transitway and the airport roads.



Agreed, except for it'd be a good idea to supplement or replace existing electric buses with extended-range electric buses to some of the routes glomming off the existing catenary can be full-electrified. Someone with more technical expertise could answer the question of whether battery-electric/trackless hybrids would have the range to run the 77 to Arlington running and charging under the wire from Harvard to North Cambridge, say. (Wouldn't that be nice, piggybacking off the existing infrastructure to eliminate the diesels instead of planning to do the opposite? Is it permanently opposite day at 10 Park Plaza or something?)
The 77 is an early candidate for IMC without new wiring.
 

jklo

Active Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2015
Messages
761
Reaction score
132
Hopefully, but it's depressing that it's even being considered at all.
I've only driven in Watertown but the overhead wires did seem overbearing. I would expect expanding to be NIMBYd to death if they went that route.
 

Brattle Loop

Active Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2020
Messages
244
Reaction score
338
I've only driven in Watertown but the overhead wires did seem overbearing. I would expect expanding to be NIMBYd to death if they went that route.
Expanding, yes, unfortunately quite likely. The T wants to take down the existing wires, much to Cambridge's displeasure.
 

Top