Transitmatters/Sierra Club bus electrification report

[Tallguy]

Is out today

 

[ceo]

Link?

 

[Tallguy]

For those for whom "transitmatters sierra bus report" is too much effort to type,

Environmentalists Press for All-Electric MBTA Bus Fleet By 2030

“We’ve been pushing the T to set an ambitious deadline for electrification is because the T needs to make a plan for a new fleet, to get its garages modernized, and to make sure there’s enoug…

mass.streetsblog.org

 

[bakgwailo]

For those for whom "transitmatters sierra bus report" is too much effort to type,

Environmentalists Press for All-Electric MBTA Bus Fleet By 2030

“We’ve been pushing the T to set an ambitious deadline for electrification is because the T needs to make a plan for a new fleet, to get its garages modernized, and to make sure there’s enoug…

mass.streetsblog.org

Wow, nice. Fully support a push to more trackless trolleys/overhead instead of battery-only buses.

 

[vanshnookenraggen]

For those for whom "transitmatters sierra bus report" is too much effort to type,

Environmentalists Press for All-Electric MBTA Bus Fleet By 2030

“We’ve been pushing the T to set an ambitious deadline for electrification is because the T needs to make a plan for a new fleet, to get its garages modernized, and to make sure there’s enoug…

mass.streetsblog.org

You went through the trouble of starting a new thread, the least you could do is include the actual report.

 

[jass]

I will read the report later, but if it doesnt start by recommending SL2 have wire strung up immediately, the whole thing is trash

 

[BostonTrainGuy]

I will read the report later, but if it doesnt start by recommending SL2 have wire strung up immediately, the whole thing is trash

Do you think it is possible to run wire through the tunnel for SL1?

 

[Tallguy]

I will read the report later, but if it doesnt start by recommending SL2 have wire strung up immediately, the whole thing is trash

There is enough wire for SL2 already

 

[Tallguy]

Do you think it is possible to run wire through the tunnel for SL1?

The Ted?

 

[BostonTrainGuy]

The Ted?

Yes

 

[stick n move]

The point of using the electric infrastructure we already have and adding to it vs tearing it down to use some new technology is such a key point. How stupid would it be to tear down the existing catenary wires just to run battery electric busses underneath? What a waste. It should be obvious that you want to use the battery electric busses to fill the routes with no infrastructure using diesel busses, thats a much better solution to where they should be placed when they come in. Plus we know how the overhead powered busses work, theyre tried and tested, the maintenance infrastructure is there, workers…etc. Replace ALL of the diesel busses first before even considering replacing the overhead electric powered busses.

 

[Brattle Loop]

Do you think it is possible to run wire through the tunnel for SL1?

I wonder if there might be some jurisdictional problems, I can easily envision some federal standard forbidding overhead wires on Interstate highways. Honestly if you wired the airport routes (would help the shuttle buses there too) and the SL3, you could probably use a battery-electric/trackless hybrid to bridge the gap between the Transitway and the airport roads.

The point of using the electric infrastructure we already have and adding to it vs tearing it down to use some new technology is such a key point. How stupid would it be to tear down the existing catenary wires just to run battery electric busses underneath? What a waste. It should be obvious that you want to use the battery electric busses to fill the routes with no infrastructure using diesel busses, thats a much better solution to where they should be placed when they come in. Plus we know how the overhead powered busses work, theyre tried and tested, the maintenance infrastructure is there, workers…etc. Replace ALL of the diesel busses first before even considering replacing the overhead electric powered busses.

Agreed, except for it'd be a good idea to supplement or replace existing electric buses with extended-range electric buses to some of the routes glomming off the existing catenary can be full-electrified. Someone with more technical expertise could answer the question of whether battery-electric/trackless hybrids would have the range to run the 77 to Arlington running and charging under the wire from Harvard to North Cambridge, say. (Wouldn't that be nice, piggybacking off the existing infrastructure to eliminate the diesels instead of planning to do the opposite? Is it permanently opposite day at 10 Park Plaza or something?)

 

[donkeybutlers]

Here is the actual report since so far the only link is to street blogs coverage of it

These are interesting charts. Electric is way cheaper in fuel costs and maintenance (and according to this just slightly the overall cheapest). The biggest barrier is that initial price point, which will likely come down as more cities do this and the technology matures. Its also not like the hybrids are all that much cheaper up front either. Electric has benefits for public health that far exceed the other options (and this may even understate the benefit based on the scale).

This is a very substantial lifetime savings for electric over hybrid (although there would need to be infrastructure investments to make it possible)

This is also a telling figure, it shows hybridization isn't even really half-assing it when it comes to environmental and health benefits:

The phase maps are also very interesting and do seem like a workable strategy to build out the network:

Seems like a very well thought out proposal. I hope it succeeds.

 

[Tallguy]

I wonder if there might be some jurisdictional problems, I can easily envision some federal standard forbidding overhead wires on Interstate highways. Honestly if you wired the airport routes (would help the shuttle buses there too) and the SL3, you could probably use a battery-electric/trackless hybrid to bridge the gap between the Transitway and the airport roads.



Agreed, except for it'd be a good idea to supplement or replace existing electric buses with extended-range electric buses to some of the routes glomming off the existing catenary can be full-electrified. Someone with more technical expertise could answer the question of whether battery-electric/trackless hybrids would have the range to run the 77 to Arlington running and charging under the wire from Harvard to North Cambridge, say. (Wouldn't that be nice, piggybacking off the existing infrastructure to eliminate the diesels instead of planning to do the opposite? Is it permanently opposite day at 10 Park Plaza or something?)

The 77 is an early candidate for IMC without new wiring.

 

[donkeybutlers]

I will read the report later, but if it doesnt start by recommending SL2 have wire strung up immediately, the whole thing is trash

That is part of phase one.

The 77 is an early candidate for IMC without new wiring.

Making the 77 charge in motion is part of phase 2.

 

[Brattle Loop]

The 77 is an early candidate for IMC without new wiring.

That assumes the T doesn't tear down the existing wire for reasons passing beyond human understanding, correct?

 

[donkeybutlers]

That assumes the T doesn't tear down the existing wire for reasons passing beyond human understanding, correct?

Hopefully this will help pressure them not to do that.

 

[Brattle Loop]

Hopefully this will help pressure them not to do that.

Hopefully, but it's depressing that it's even being considered at all.

 

[jklo]

Hopefully, but it's depressing that it's even being considered at all.

I've only driven in Watertown but the overhead wires did seem overbearing. I would expect expanding to be NIMBYd to death if they went that route.

 

[Brattle Loop]

I've only driven in Watertown but the overhead wires did seem overbearing. I would expect expanding to be NIMBYd to death if they went that route.

Expanding, yes, unfortunately quite likely. The T wants to take down the existing wires, much to Cambridge's displeasure.