Tremont/Melnea Cass Planned Hotel

That design is hideous. Reminds me of this building in New York:

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Developer cuts residential portion of proposal by ~50% after receiving city approval? Delightful!


Roxbury grocer aims to triple size with $44M plan
By Donna Goodison / Boston Herald

Madison Park Development Corp. and Tropical Foods International hope to start construction by July on their $44 million mixed-used project in Roxbury’s Dudley Square.

The companies have filed a “letter of intent” to the Boston Redevelopment Authority for the 2.75-acre development. The $14 million first phase will be a new home for Tropical Foods, an urban supermarket that has operated in Dudley Square since 1974.

“It’s only fair to our customers that we get that new store so we can give them the shopping experience that they deserve,” co-owner Ronn Garry Jr. said. “It’s also a good sign, in this day and age — when independent (grocers) such as Johnnie’s Foodmaster and Hi-Lo are going out of business — to see an independent that’s willing to expand and build new.”

Garry hopes to open the “long overdue” store by late 2014, with offerings including a deli, bakery, fresh seafood and prepared foods.

The developers say city and state approvals are time-sensitive. Bank of America’s financing is contingent on the phase-one construction loan closing by July.

The new Tropical Foods, with 27,000 square feet of retail, will be more than triple the size of the current market, which draws 14,000 shoppers weekly.

“People call us the ‘United Nations,’ ” Garry said, noting Tropical Foods’ Caribbean, black American, and Central and South American customers. “But we’re not just an ethnic store; we’re a full-service supermarket.”

Bordering Melnea Cass Boulevard, Washington Street and Shawmut Avenue, the project covers four parcels owned by Tropical Foods and vacant land, called Parcel 10, owned by the BRA and state Department of Transportation.

The project’s estimated $17 million second phase will be a 54,000-square-foot building with office and retail. Madison Park scrapped a wing of 36 residential units there.

“Part of the reason for some of the design changes was that the city is widening Melnea Cass Boulevard because they’re planning a bus lane down the middle,” Madison Park CEO Jeanne Pinado said.

The nonprofit has yet to secure financing for the building or the third phase — a $14 million rehab of the Tropical Foods building into 30 subsidized apartments and first-floor retail.
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If their finances are tricky, and they're concerned about the proposed widening of Melnea Cass interfering with the project, it's not that surprising that they sliced off the wing nearest to the roadway. Still shitty though.
 
itchy said:
What is an "urban supermarket"?
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i.e. Not a suburban Burlington/Westford-style Market Basket. Smaller, tighter aisles, more diverse stock, housing/office space overhead etc.
 
BussesAin'tTrains said:
i.e. Not a suburban Burlington/Westford-style Market Basket. Smaller, tighter aisles, more diverse stock, housing/office space overhead etc.
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Tighter aisles in an 'urban' supermarket? Oh-oh.... it will be customer bumper car time.
 
Ever been to the Somerville Market Basket? Bumpers galore...
 
Gosh, if only there was some kind of other way we could maximize the space available to us. Some kind of method where we could stack aisles on top of each other instead of shrinking them, almost like some kind of "multiple level" arrangement.

Yeah, it's too bad we have to try and cram an entire store onto a single floor. Seems like kind of a bad way of doing business, to be honest...
 
Commuting Boston Student said:
Gosh, if only there was some kind of other way we could maximize the space available to us. Some kind of method where we could stack aisles on top of each other instead of shrinking them, almost like some kind of "multiple level" arrangement.

Yeah, it's too bad we have to try and cram an entire store onto a single floor. Seems like kind of a bad way of doing business, to be honest...
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All the elevators, escalators, and cartvators are rarely worth it. There's the raw upfront cost and then there's the lifetime maintenance costs associated with all of those mechanical devices.

The catch-all option for multi-floor stores is of course travellators, but they require epic amounts of square footage (that could be used for merchandise) because they have to be at such a gentle slope.
 
Tropical Foods has an entire aisle made up of beans, so that's the type of "urban" customer they have attracted.
 
datadyne007 said:
All the elevators, escalators, and cartvators are rarely worth it. There's the raw upfront cost and then there's the lifetime maintenance costs associated with all of those mechanical devices.

The catch-all option for multi-floor stores is of course travellators, but they require epic amounts of square footage (that could be used for merchandise) because they have to be at such a gentle slope.
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The elevator and the cartvator can be combined into exceptionally larger than normal elevators, and escalators are not strictly necessary.

Also, I have trouble believing that the costs of building up are going to be anything other than a rounding error when the operative plan is to build things on top of this supermarket anyway. So your second floor offices became second floor retail and you had to upsize your elevators - not that dramatic of a change.
 
Commuting Boston Student said:
The elevator and the cartvator can be combined into exceptionally larger than normal elevators, and escalators are not strictly necessary.

Also, I have trouble believing that the costs of building up are going to be anything other than a rounding error when the operative plan is to build things on top of this supermarket anyway. So your second floor offices became second floor retail and you had to upsize your elevators - not that dramatic of a change.
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You would never be able to use the same elevators to serve the upper floors of this building including the supermarket floors. In addition to the tower elevators, you would need dedicated ones for the supermarket. Supermarket elevators need to be industrial-grade because they take quite a beating and get really gross really quickly. Case study: Shaw's Prudential. You also need freight elevators.

There's so much in terms of practical codes and traffic patterns that you just aren't including in your analysis. It's a downright horrible idea to have the only means of vertical travel in the store be via elevators. Escalators (and cartvators now that they have been invented) are essential to effective people flow. (God, I should have applied to work for KONE haha)
 
datadyne007 said:
You would never be able to use the same elevators to serve the upper floors of this building including the supermarket floors. In addition to the tower elevators, you would need dedicated ones for the supermarket. Supermarket elevators need to be industrial-grade because they take quite a beating and get really gross really quickly. Case study: Shaw's Prudential. You also need freight elevators.

There's so much in terms of practical codes and traffic patterns that you just aren't including in your analysis. It's a downright horrible idea to have the only means of vertical travel in the store be via elevators. Escalators (and cartvators now that they have been invented) are essential to effective people flow. (God, I should have applied to work for KONE haha)
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Generally, I imagine that the access to the upper floors of the building is going to be in a lobby mostly separate from ground floor retail anyway. As a two-floor deal, it's simply a matter of purchasing another industrial elevator or two anyway. Speaking of the Prudential, they have four elevator banks divided up by floor. In fact, I believe most sufficiently tall buildings have elevators divided up into sections of floor. Why would that suddenly not hold true in a multi-level supermarket scenario?

And I never said elevators would be the only means of vertical travel. I just said that escalators were an entirely unnecessary expenditure, and indeed they are. The lifetime maintenance cost on conventional stairs is significantly lower.
 
Commuting Boston Student said:
Generally, I imagine that the access to the upper floors of the building is going to be in a lobby mostly separate from ground floor retail anyway. As a two-floor deal, it's simply a matter of purchasing another industrial elevator or two anyway. Speaking of the Prudential, they have four elevator banks divided up by floor. In fact, I believe most sufficiently tall buildings have elevators divided up into sections of floor. Why would that suddenly not hold true in a multi-level supermarket scenario?

And I never said elevators would be the only means of vertical travel. I just said that escalators were an entirely unnecessary expenditure, and indeed they are. The lifetime maintenance cost on conventional stairs is significantly lower.
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Express zones are only practical above 10 stories.

Also, in a supermarket, stairs would essentially lead to the same crush capacity on the elevators. You might as well just keep the supermarket on the ground floor as much as you possibly can. Engage the street with a cafe and call it a day. The only truly multi-level supermarket (ie. not just raised up to the second floor like Shaw's Pru or Star Chestnut Hill) I've seen was a ridiculously high end one in Vienna at Stephansplatz and it was like four stories.
 
Smaller scale one story city markets are more than workable. After shopping at the Whole Foods in the West End, going to a supermarket out in the burbs is beyond comical. It's like shopping through the Grand Fucking Canyon. "I THINK I SEE GREEN BEANS TWO MILES OVER!"
 
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