Why There's No Hope

a630

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"Of course we're played out in this country --no news there. We're effete and incapable of potent action like the last emperor's China: bureaucratized, demoralized, traumatized and paralyzed. So what else is new? Haven't most of us known this for ages?"

phew, another source of gut-wrenching pontification aside from evening cable pundits. i was getting worried!
well, a lot of things are new, but since none of this is satisfying enough, let's hear a (dare i ask?) policy suggestion to take away from this so we can get out of this bureaucratized, demoralized, traumatized paralysis!
something besides bending the world to your will.
 
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Re: The New, New City

"Of course we're played out in this country ? We're effete and incapable of potent action like the last emperor's China? ... let's hear a (dare i ask?) policy suggestion to take away from this so we can get out of this bureaucratized, demoralized, traumatized paralysis!
something besides bending the world to your will.
People are always giving me homework.

Whew, this assignment is a biggie. Worthy of a Barack Obama. This charge is to make a technical proposal to pre-emptively fix the United States? future history, right? ?particularly with regard to our drift toward decline.

I?m just an architect, not a presidential candidate, and I?ve only got an hour to think this one out before I have to get back to work, but here goes ?

We could start by electing Barack Obama. Then we could feed him a courage potion so he?d be willing to make proposals unpopular with some of the electorate. Here?s the list:

1. Pull all troops out of Iraq immediately.
2. Make friends with Russia by:

a. pulling our newly-installed ?defensive? missiles out of Poland and the Czech Republic;
b. arranging to buy gazillion barrels of Russian oil to replace the petroleum we?ll no longer get from Iraq (Putin and cronies will love this one. The price of top-rank London condos doubles.).

3. In return, the Russians promise to stop selling arms and nuclear aid to Iran, and ?
4. We, in turn cut off arms shipments to Saudi Arabia. We leave the royal family to the tender mercies of Osama bin Laden, who moves back by popular acclaim as spiritual leader to the newly-minted Islamic Republic of Saudi Arabia. He agrees to call off his boys if we pressure the Israelis to make peace with Palestine by letting them have their half of Jerusalem. The Israelis dismantle the fence around Gaza.

Meanwhile, on the home front, Barack moves fast to:

1. get some Americans into vehicles that don?t add CO2 to the atmosphere and?
2. get other Americans out of their cars entirely for their trips to work.

To accomplish the former, Barack unpopularly launches a program to build 100 nuclear powerplants in wilderness areas downwind from population centers. While these are designed and constructed, GM, Ford, Chrysler and all foreign carmakers queue up for licenses to build Ratan Tata?s car that runs on compressed air. America?s suburban houses and service stations are equipped with air compressors. You plug in your car and fill the tank with compressed air. Zero emissions at the tailpipe and zero emissions at the power plant.

To accomplish the latter, Obama overlays all existing zoning with a separate Federally-mandated category that basically allows genuinely urban, walkable development (buildings that touch, mixed use, no surface parking lots) to occur wherever there is zoning that is not agricultural or wilderness. This means you can build Beacon Hill anywhere you can build Waltham.

At first, this is deeply unpopular with residents of Lincoln, Weston and Sudbury, who fear inundation by knife-wielding crack dealers. Since it?s proposed in the first week of Obama?s term, he figures he can get some of this stuff built before he has to run for re-election. To expedite construction, the Feds mandate a drastically streamlined approval process. Obama appoints Leon Krier to the newly-created post of Secretary of Urban Development. When the folks in Lincoln discover how convenient and pleasant it has become to walk to the corner store, they mute their opposition.

The building code, presently at 1350 pages, is edited down to 80 pages of essentials, and every addition to it must be accompanied by a deletion of equal length.

Developers jump enthusiastically aboard, construction delays are a thing of the past, and land values become a smaller part of the cost of developing a dwelling unit.

Little inhabited town centers appear like raisins in the pound cake of Suburbia. Now the country?s humming with construction activity as suburbia gradually morphs into urban patterns. Planners start the process of connecting these centers via networks of light rail.

Agriculture revives and food prices go down; as Suburbia recedes, arable land makes a comeback, and farming pays better than selling out to developers. Television broadcasts the spectacle of a subdivision actually being bulldozed to create a farm.

Money is now being invested on a Chinese scale as the whole country pitches in at an accelerated rate to rebuild. New infrastructure springs up: high-speed train lines, long-needed ocean crossings made possible by advances in suspension bridge design and tunneling techniques.

Naturally, the government raises taxes ?especially at upper income levels?but folks mostly don?t mind because they can see where the money is going, and there?s a new-found camaraderie to the national spirit, a consensus, a feeling of solidarity and patriotism without jingoism. As a byproduct of the tax increase, the national debt is paid off from its present $700bil.

Rivalry with China is back-burnered by both nations, as a constant series of treaties strengthen trade ties, co-operation, shared technology and a feeling of mutual destiny.

The minimum wage is raised to a level where a full-time worker can keep a roof overhead, and the price of a Big Mac goes up by a quarter.

In Obama?s second term, the constitution is amended to allow up to four terms.

* * *


something besides bending the world to your will.

Plenty of other countries such as the Netherlands and Denmark and Italy have found ways to prosper without the need to "run the world" anymore.
Pass muster?


Sorry for yet another round of gut-wrenching pontification, a630, but after all you did ask for it? ;)


Gotta go feed my family. I'll step aside and allow identification of all aspects of this plan that are impossible, and when finished you'll know exactly why there's no hope for the future.

.
 
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Re: How would you fix the country?

^^^ so you see the glass as half full.

5% of the world's population shouldn't be using 25% of it's resources, once we invest heavily in mass transit, give people incentives to live in urban areas, and have green building codes we will be better off.
 
Re: How would you fix the country?

Van or briv (I assume) snipped off the tail of the "New New City" thread and moved it here under the slightly ponderous title, "How would you fix the country"?

That tail grew rather organically out of the original discussion that came out of the Ouroussoff article, and to be honest I'm a little sorry to see it amputated and moved here. Are we left with two stumps?

Here's the other: http://www.archboston.org/community/showthread.php?p=55063#post55063

Not sure it's all that comfy here. Would you consider stitching it back where it came from?

If not, can you at least change the thread's title to "Why There's No Hope"?

Please. :)
 
Re: How would you fix the country?

Lower taxes and raise speed limits.
 
Re: How would you fix the country?

Kill everyone older than 65, use their social security to fix the earth
 
Re: How would you fix the country?

ablarc: It was I, and I did it only because I knew if people responded to it the thread would tangent off, having nothing to do with the original post.

You posted a link to the other thread so I think that will suffice if people want to read what happened.
 
A context, perhaps, for some of the fantasies in the second post of this thread:

June 11, 2008
OP-ED COLUMNIST
Obama on the Nile

By THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN
Cairo

This column will probably get Barack Obama in trouble, but that?s not my problem. I cannot tell a lie: Many Egyptians and other Arab Muslims really like him and hope that he wins the presidency.

I have had a chance to observe several U.S. elections from abroad, but it has been unusually revealing to be in Egypt as Barack Hussein Obama became the Democrats? nominee for president of the United States.

While Obama, who was raised a Christian, is constantly assuring Americans that he is not a Muslim, Egyptians are amazed, excited and agog that America might elect a black man whose father?s family was of Muslim heritage. They don?t really understand Obama?s family tree, but what they do know is that if America ? despite being attacked by Muslim militants on 9/11 ? were to elect as its president some guy with the middle name ?Hussein,? it would mark a sea change in America-Muslim world relations.

Every interview seems to end with the person I was interviewing asking me: ?Now, can I ask you a question? Obama? Do you think they will let him win?? (It?s always ?let him win? not just ?win.?)

It would not be an exaggeration to say that the Democrats? nomination of Obama as their candidate for president has done more to improve America?s image abroad ? an image dented by the Iraq war, President Bush?s invocation of a post-9/11 ?crusade,? Abu Ghraib, Guant?namo Bay and the xenophobic opposition to Dubai Ports World managing U.S. harbors ? than the entire Bush public diplomacy effort for seven years.

Of course, Egyptians still have their grievances with America, and will in the future no matter who is president ? and we?ve got a few grievances with them, too. But every once in a while, America does something so radical, so out of the ordinary ? something that old, encrusted, traditional societies like those in the Middle East could simply never imagine ? that it revives America?s revolutionary ?brand? overseas in a way that no diplomat could have designed or planned.

I just had dinner at a Nile-side restaurant with two Egyptian officials and a businessman, and one of them quoted one of his children as asking: ?Could something like this ever happen in Egypt?? And the answer from everyone at the table was, of course, ?no.? It couldn?t happen anywhere in this region. Could a Copt become president of Egypt? Not a chance. Could a Shiite become the leader of Saudi Arabia? Not in a hundred years. A Bahai president of Iran? In your dreams. Here, the past always buries the future, not the other way around.

These Egyptian officials were particularly excited about Obama?s nomination because it might mean that being labeled a ?pro-American? reformer is no longer an insult here, as it has been in recent years. As one U.S. diplomat put it to me: Obama?s demeanor suggests to foreigners that he would not only listen to what they have to say but might even take it into account. They anticipate that a U.S. president who spent part of his life looking at America from the outside in ? as John McCain did while a P.O.W. in Vietnam ? will be much more attuned to global trends.

My colleague Michael Slackman, The Times?s bureau chief in Cairo, told me about a recent encounter he had with a worker at Cairo?s famed Blue Mosque: ?Gamal Abdul Halem was sitting on a green carpet. When he saw we were Americans, he said: ?Hillary-Obama tied?? in thick, broken English. He told me that he lived in the Nile Delta, traveling two hours one way everyday to get to work, and still he found time to keep up with the race. He didn?t have anything to say bad about Hillary but felt that Obama would be much better because he is dark-skinned, like him, and because he has Muslim heritage. ?For me and my family and friends, we want Obama,? he said. ?We all like what he is saying.? ?

Yes, all of this Obama-mania is excessive and will inevitably be punctured should he win the presidency and start making tough calls or big mistakes. For now, though, what it reveals is how much many foreigners, after all the acrimony of the Bush years, still hunger for the ?idea of America? ? this open, optimistic, and, indeed, revolutionary, place so radically different from their own societies.

In his history of 19th-century America, ?What Hath God Wrought,? Daniel Walker Howe quotes Ralph Waldo Emerson as telling a meeting of the Mercantile Library Association in 1844 that ?America is the country of the future. It is a country of beginnings, of projects, of vast designs and expectations.?

That?s the America that got swallowed by the war on terrorism. And it?s the America that many people want back. I have no idea whether Obama will win in November. Whether he does or doesn?t, though, the mere fact of his nomination has done something very important. We?ve surprised ourselves and surprised the world and, in so doing, reminded everyone that we are still a country of new beginnings.


Copyright 2008 The New York Times Company
 
I was listening to a panel of distinguished economists on the Diane Rheem show, including economic advisers to both Obama and McCain. The consensus was that there wasn't enough talk from either candidate about a quick fix for the present chaos, which is what the panel agreed was needed at this moment, while a long-term economic strategy is for ... well, the long term.

Quick fix? Here's a quick fix:

A SPECIFIC CURE FOR THE BANK MELTDOWN

The Federal Reserve lowers the interest rate at which it makes money available to banks --by say 1%-- but with the condition that the banks keep the rates at which they lend that money out at their present levels.

This means a higher return for banks, and therefore will encourage them to approve slightly riskier loans than they are presently willing to make.

The immediate effect would be to get money circulating again, increase the profitability of the banks, restore some investment, revive the construction industry, jumpstart the economy and avert a depression.

At present, nothing is coming out of banks, and therefore the economy is totally stagnant. When money doesn't circulate, an economy is dead.



PLAN B: alternatively, you could lower the Fed's interest rate by say 2%, and require them to lower their rate to the consumer by 1%. This means that in addition to the incentives enumerated above, there's an immediate incentive for folks to seek a bank loan.
 
Hmmm....I seem to have found myself in this deep hole. How can I get out?

I know! I'll dig my way out!

Banks failed because people could not afford to pay the loans they had.

Trying to lend them more money is not going to help. It's like giving a glass of water to drowning victim.
 
Anyone see Thomas Friedman (is it Tom or Thom? Anyone know?) on Charlie Rose this past week? Someone needs to make him Secretary of State.
 
The current proposed fix: privatization of profit; socialization of loss.
 
Hope is overrated, get off you butt and work to make things happen

Sometimes I wonder why I bothered to defect...

"5% of the world's population shouldn't be using 25% of it's resources"

That's the biggest canard ever because it doesn't look at economic activity and productivity. The US generates the biggest share of wealth in one of the most efficient economies on earth, you have to take that into consideration.

"Whew, this assignment is a biggie. Worthy of a Barack Obama."
A one term senator who's really getting ahead of himself, but boy does he have a personality cult worthy of Papa Mao. He reminds me of a used car salesman or a phony minister from Dorchester. Why's everyone so gaga over this clown and the skirt from Alaska?

"particularly with regard to our drift toward decline."
The US isn't in decline, all the other powers are catching up after the disasters of WWI & WWI. One country doesn't become less powerful simply because others are gaining power. We are on course back to the balance of power that existed prior to WWI for better or worse.


"Then we could feed him a courage potion so he?d be willing to make proposals unpopular with some of the electorate."
With the Democratic congress at 8-10% approval ratings, which laughably make boy George look good around 305, Good luck with that.

"1. Pull all troops out of Iraq immediately."
-Cause a bigger disaster than the current mess that's slowly being resolved. It would have help to listen to General David Petraeus instead of declaring a position months in advance and then ignoring updates from the people in charge months later. For the historical perspective, in the end congress blew off General Creighton Abrams and it cost millions of people their lives.

"2. Make friends with Russia by"
-The most dangerous concept in the world is the belief that evil can be reasoned with.

"a. pulling our newly-installed ?defensive? missiles out of Poland and the Czech Republic;"
-Sure, dismantle the cage, it only makes the bear angry. So what if it wants to eat your friends? The Czechs asked for the missiles for good reason, do you really want to sell you friends down the river to appease your enemies?

"b. arranging to buy gazillion barrels of Russian oil to replace the petroleum we?ll no longer get from Iraq (Putin and cronies will love this one. The price of top-rank London condos doubles.)."
-Making blackmail and appeasement a state policy, such that Putin will have the same economic veto over the US as he currently does with the EU. What could possibly go wrong turning a huge chunk of your economy over to the largest state run mafia ever?

"3. In return, the Russians promise to stop selling arms and nuclear aid to Iran, and ?"
-Sure they'll 'promise' you anything you get you to put down your arms.
When some stooge orders the Vozdushno-Desantnye Vojska to show up and beat you to death with a tactical shovel in front of the locals to make a point a 'promise' is whatever they feel like, I'm sure you'll feel much better. I have a hard time believing someone as intelligent as you could be so naive!

"4. We, in turn cut off arms shipments to Saudi Arabia. We leave the royal family to the tender mercies of Osama bin Laden, who moves back by popular acclaim as spiritual leader to the newly-minted Islamic Republic of Saudi Arabia. He agrees to call off his boys if we pressure the Israelis to make peace with Palestine by letting them have their half of Jerusalem. The Israelis dismantle the fence around Gaza."
-Lets see, the global petrol market collapses, and a series of very nasty resource wars break out as the economies of the industrialize nations are held for ransom or collapse. The US again appeases nasty evil people who aren't logical and want to kill for the hell of it. Promises from them aren't worth the paper they are written on, see Warizstan for how well negotiating with them works. Israel/Palestine don't mean a damn thing to those people, it's a state sponsored conflict by Israel's neighbors to distract the masses from their own problems as a scapegoat. The USSR itself poured billions into keeping that conflict going, in order to play regional chess against the US, France, and the UK. Palestinians don't want peace, that would mean an end to the money train from the UN et all, unless it involves finishing what Hitler started. Land for peace has never worked because the conflict isn't about land, it's about state sponsored hatred, and those who profit off the continuation of the conflict.


"1. get some Americans into vehicles that don?t add CO2 to the atmosphere"
-The cost of gasoline is moving people towards that without the government having to waste tax dollar on promoting this.

"2. get other Americans out of their cars entirely for their trips to work."
-Unless you want to give the government control of how you may travel and where you may live, as it was in the USSR, this isn't the government's job.

"To accomplish the former, Barack unpopularly launches a program to build 100 nuclear powerplants in wilderness areas downwind from population centers."
-NIMBYs behind the no nukes movement contributed how many millions to Mr.O? Oh that's right. Ditto for congress bending over backwards for Greenpeace and the Sierra Club.

"GM, Ford, Chrysler and all foreign carmakers queue up for licenses to build Ratan Tata?s car that runs on compressed air. America?s suburban houses and service stations are equipped with air compressors. You plug in your car and fill the tank with compressed air. Zero emissions at the tailpipe and zero emissions at the power plant."
-That car is scam, (domestically produced) Asian and US automakers are already slated to have viable alternative energy cars on the market by 2009-10. Gas prices and consumer decisions are already driving this movement. There is no need for automakers to fling money at some crooked Indian company.

"To accomplish the latter, Obama overlays all existing zoning with a separate Federally-mandated category that basically allows genuinely urban, walkable development (buildings that touch, mixed use, no surface parking lots) to occur wherever there is zoning that is not agricultural or wilderness. This means you can build Beacon Hill anywhere you can build Waltham. Since it?s proposed in the first week of Obama?s term, he figures he can get some of this stuff built before he has to run for re-election. To expedite construction, the Feds mandate a drastically streamlined approval process. Obama appoints Leon Krier to the newly-created post of Secretary of Urban Development."

-That's a massive power grab by the executive branch, do you really think that would fly? States would have massive issues with their rights to legislate being co-opted by the federal government. Remember that whole Civil War thing?


"The building code, presently at 1350 pages, is edited down to 80 pages of essentials, and every addition to it must be accompanied by a deletion of equal length."
-Ever heard of lawyers? You might not be interested in them, but they would be very interested in you! Tort reform would lovely, although, probably political suicide for the proposer.

"Agriculture revives and food prices go down; as Suburbia recedes, arable land makes a comeback, and farming pays better than selling out to developers. Television broadcasts the spectacle of a subdivision actually being bulldozed to create a farm."
-Agriculture was slowing down prior to the massive growth of suburbia. Take a look into that before making all these rosy assumptions.


"Money is now being invested on a Chinese scale as the whole country pitches in at an accelerated rate to rebuild. New infrastructure springs up: high-speed train lines, long-needed ocean crossings made possible by advances in suspension bridge design and tunneling techniques."

-Research the great depression and Gosplan long enough and you'll realize why it isn't the greatest idea to expect the government to be the one building all that lovely stuff.

"Naturally, the government raises taxes ?especially at upper income levels?but folks mostly don?t mind because they can see where the money is going"
-Wave bye bye to all the industries to foreign countries, along with the wealthy moving all their money out of the US to tax shelters at an alarming rate, while investors also find greener pastures. Sure tax the rich who invest and own businesses. So unless you buy something, invest, or get a check from a business, those higher taxes aren't going to affect you at all.

"there?s a new-found camaraderie to the national spirit, a consensus, a feeling of solidarity and patriotism without jingoism."
-I've heard that before, the end result was quite different.

"As a byproduct of the tax increase, the national debt is paid off from its present $700bil"
-Giving more money to the government and expecting them to pay off their debt, is like giving a crack addict and expecting them to pay off their debt. Weeks later, they show out again empty handed asking for more money because they owe cousin Vinny down the street.


"Rivalry with China is back-burnered by both nations, as a constant series of treaties strengthen trade ties, co-operation, shared technology and a feeling of mutual destiny."
-China wants to be top dog, they aren't up for being nice and sharing, they are in it to win. Do you honestly believe any global power is willing to play nice and share for the warm fuzzy feeling they get inside? Hell no!

"The minimum wage is raised to a level where a full-time worker can keep a roof overhead, and the price of a Big Mac goes up by a quarter."
-Cost of living varies by location. Not linking pay to quality and difficulty of work is a bad idea for a variety of reasons. Ever heard of wage spiraling?


"In Obama?s second term, the constitution is amended to allow up to four terms."
-Because we love dictatorships. That would happen over the dead bodies of another civil war.

"something besides bending the world to your will."
-That's the great game, play it to win, or submit to a hopefully benign master.

"Plenty of other countries such as the Netherlands and Denmark and Italy have found ways to prosper without the need to "run the world" anymore."
-Yes and they've been happily invaded, plundered at various times,and manipulated ever since.
 
Does anyone know whether Mayor Bloomberg has ordered protective netting installed around lower Manhattan buildings yet?
 
Bloomberg will get to that as soon as he's done exiling Manhattan's homeless population to Brooklyn. But you might have to wait for him to personally cut the ribbon for each and ever single one of Robert Scarano Jr's illega... erm beautiful projects first.
 
Re: Hope is overrated, get off you butt and work to make things happen

"GM, Ford, Chrysler and all foreign carmakers queue up for licenses to build Ratan Tata?s car that runs on compressed air. America?s suburban houses and service stations are equipped with air compressors. You plug in your car and fill the tank with compressed air. Zero emissions at the tailpipe and zero emissions at the power plant."

-That car is scam, (domestically produced) Asian and US automakers are already slated to have viable alternative energy cars on the market by 2009-10. Gas prices and consumer decisions are already driving this movement. There is no need for automakers to fling money at some crooked Indian company.

Air Cars: A New Wind for America's Roads

A new carmaker has a plan for cheap, environmentally friendly cars to be built all over the country.

By Jim Ostroff, Associate Editor, The Kiplinger Letter


October 28, 2008

An air-powered car? It may be available sooner than you think at a price tag that will hardly be a budget buster. The vehicle may not run like a speed racer on back road highways, but developer Zero Pollution Motors is betting consumers will be willing to fork over $20,000 for a vehicle that can motor around all day on nothing but air and a splash of salad oil, alcohol or possibly a pint of gasoline.

The expertise needed to build a compressed air car, or CAV, is not rocket science, either. Years-old, off-the-shelf technology uses compressed air to drive old-fashioned car engine pistons instead of combusting gas or diesel fuel to create a burst of air to do the same thing. Indian carmaker Tata has no qualms about the technology. It has already bought the rights to make the car for the huge Indian market.

The air car can tool along at a top speed of 35 mph for some 60 miles or so on a tank of compressed air, a sufficient distance for 80% of consumers to commute to work and back and complete daily chores.

On highways, the CAV can cruise at interstate speeds for nearly 800 miles with a small motor that compresses outside air to keep the tank filled. The motor isn't finicky about fuel. It will burn gasoline or diesel as well as biodiesel, ethanol or vegetable oil.

This car leaves the highest-mpg vehicles you can buy right now in the dust. Even if it used only regular gasoline, the air car would average 106 mpg, more than double today's fuel sipping champ, the Toyota Prius. The air tank also can be refilled when it's not in use by being plugged into a wall socket and recharged with electricity as the motor compresses air.


Automakers aren't quite ready yet to gear up huge assembly line operations churning out air cars or set up glitzy dealer showrooms where you can ooh and aah over the color or style. But the vehicles will be built in factories that will make up to 8,000 vehicles a year, likely starting in 2011, and be sold directly to consumers.

There will be plants in nearly every state, based on the number of drivers in the state. California will have as many as 17 air car manufacturing plants, and there'll be around 12 in Florida, eight in New York, four in Georgia, while two in Connecticut will serve that state and Rhode Island.

The technology goes back decades, but is coming together courtesy of two converging forces. First, new laws are likely to be enacted in a few years that will limit carbon dioxide emissions and force automakers to develop ultra-high mileage cars and those that emit minuscule amounts of or no gases linked with global warming. Plug-in electric hybrids will slash these emissions, but they'll be pricey at around $40,000 each and require some changes in infrastructure -- such as widespread recharge stations -- to be practical. Fuel cells that burn hydrogen to produce only water vapor still face daunting technical challenges.

Second, the relatively high cost of gas has expedited the air car's development. Yes, pump prices have plunged since July from record levels, but remain way higher than just a few years ago and continue to take a bite out of disposable income. Refiners will face carbon emission restraints, too, and steeply higher costs will be passed along at the pump.

Zero Pollution Motors doesn't plan to produce the cars in the U.S. Instead, it plans to charge $15 million for the rights to the technology, a fully built turnkey auto assembly plant, tools, machinery, training and rights to use trademarks.

The CAV has a big hurdle: proving it can pass federal crash tests. Shiva Vencat, president and CEO of Zero Pollution Motors, says he's not worried. "The requirements can be modeled [on a computer] before anything is built and adjusted to ensure that the cars will pass" the crash tests. Vencat also is a vice president of MDI Inc., a French company that developed the air car.

http://news.search.yahoo.com/news/search?p=compressed+air+car+tata
 
The current proposed fix: privatization of profit; socialization of loss.

What we need is to pull out of the war and use the military money to finance domestic projects. America first PLEASE!!!
 
Must have been a slow day for you to dig out something almost 6 years old. That being said, wow I can't believe it's been six years.
 

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